Create an accessible gite?

[ergo]

Hello

As of May I am to be officially launching my own practice here in France, as a way of, hopefully, getting it off on the right footing I thought that I should post on the forum. I should say now that it is a lengthy post and to obtain professional assistance (gratis) you do not need to use my services. I hope it is helpful information, if you have heard it all before... please be gentle with me

My name is John Ewens and I am an occupational therapist registered, to practice in the UK and France, I have many years experience of personal and environmental assessments and adaptations to meet the needs of disabled people and their families. Recently in France there have been significant changes in the way the needs of people with disabilities are to be met. I know many people with disabilities, and their families like to holiday in France, unfortunately, finding suitable holiday accommodation is often very difficult. In my professional experience there is an untapped market for this service within France.

In both the UK and France, disabled people and their families are entitled to financial assistance to cover the costs of holidays. Do you think your holiday property could be made suitable to meet the needs of this client group? It is my belief that the potential for the holiday season to be extended beyond the usual season will make it a worthwhile financial consideration for all people renting gites and other holiday accommodation.

Within France there are grants available for up to 30% of the costs involved for the purchase of materials and/or labour to develop accessible holiday accommodation.

If you are planning to offer wheelchair access, or suitable access for people with reduced mobility, you can gain official recognition and free promotion from the departmental and tourism offices. I have listed below some of the considerations you would need to take into account and I have also provided a link to a web page that I have created. You can access this at; www.within-france.com/developinggites.html If further information is required about this, or any disability related issue within France, please email or pm me

There are a range of 'norms' and specifications. You are able to get these from your Maison Departmentale des Personnes Handicapee via your Conseil Generale. This would cover all aspects required – height of light switches/plug sockets, position of toilet, grab rails, suitable non pedestal sink, gradient of ramps. etc.

Perhaps one of the first thing to consider is if, once you have created an accessible ensuite bedroom, is access to the other parts of the property that people use also accessible, do you have a communal lounge/garden/dining room. etc.

Also what is the access like to and from the property?
Are there steps/stairs between rooms?
Does the direction the doors open impede access, how wide are the doorways, how big is the hallway that the doors lead onto?

What size are the rooms which will be used? Is there enough space for the furniture and for a wheelchair to come and go? Is there space for a wheelchair to turn around?
Are there obstructions around the toilet? Does the pipe work impede a safe toilet transfer? Is there suitable access for a carer to assist if required?

Other things you will need to consider would be thermostatically controlled level access shower, type of floor covering, potential trip hazards, and sufficient space in the property to recharge a powered wheelchair and the like

There are many issues to consider but these are not as demanding as they may first seem, I think that it would be best to try and keep it as flexible as possible so that you can change it to meet the different needs of your guests. For example, some guests would need a single bed due to their medical condition, others may require a double bed due to their family makeup. Some guests may require small items of disability equipment. etc.

I hope that this gives you some idea of what is involved, if you decide to go ahead, I would advise you to contact the Conseil Generale in the first instance to obtain the norms and guidelines here in France.

If you would like further assistance from me, scaled drawings, recommendations specific to you, your property and your requirements, obtaining grants or finding quality local suppliers of specialist equipment. etc, then please contact me with your ideas so far, and I will advise you of my range of charges for specific involvement.

I wish you all every success

Cordialement
John Ewens

[Hells Bells]

John, advertising your own business is not normally allowed on this site, apart from a link to your own holiday property. This may however, be something others are interested in, so I suggest you contact Paolo, (click the messages link at top of page) and ask his permission to post.

[Moliere]

That's interesting stuff John.

When we built our holiday home in the Languedoc 3 years ago, we designed it from the outset to be wheelchair-accessible throughout, recognising that there was (is) a dearth of villas suitable for disabled people. Since then we have had quite a number of wheelchair-users and their families/carers staying and have had 100% positive feedback, so it was personally very worthwhile, and of course it has had benefits too for older people or even Mums with pushchairs.

However, it did cost us quite a lot more money than just building to normal standards. And now it seems, you can get grants for these extra costs - forgive me, therefore, if I feel just a little bit sick.

'Twas ever thus, I suppose . . .

Moliere

[mpprh]

Hi

this seems to be an interesting niche.

I've had contacts with these people http://www.lacoume-gites.com who also provide this service http://www.access-auditors.com

Peter

[ergo]

John, advertising your own business is not normally allowed on this site, apart from a link to your own holiday property. This may however, be something others are interested in, so I suggest you contact Paolo, (click the messages link at top of page) and ask his permission to post.

HelenB
Thank you for gently pointing out that I have made an error and for your suggestion to remedy it. I have written a message to Paolo.

I guess I am just so keen to make a success of my practice that I did not consider it could be a tacky thing to do. I apologise to all the forum members. Perhaps there is a way my 'self publicity' could be removed but the body content could still stand as I believe it may be useful to some people.

Moliere
Had a look at your place, WoW. It looks truly like a holiday place I would like to stay in. Sad to hear that you were unable to access the grants when you created it, but pleased to hear how well it has worked out and the positive feedback that you are getting.

Have you considered obtaining the 'Tourism et Handicappe' rating now though, it will not cost you any further money and it may open up different routes to potential renters.

[ergo]

Hi

this seems to be an interesting niche.

I've had contacts with these people http://www.lacoume-gites.com who also provide this service http://www.access-auditors.com

Peter

It really is an interesting niche and I really like the professionalism of the links that you passed on, the access auditors and the 'special interest' holidays seem to be very good quality. Can I ask what contacts you have had with them? Was it to assess and set up accessible gites or to be listed on your site.
I had a look at your site and I would very much like to be included in the listings. Don't want to sound too desperate but a rapididly deminishing bank account, a (nicely) demanding wife and four hungry little mouths to feed (not including the animals) means that I have to make a success of my practice or........

[Alan Knighting]

John,

I’m now in my eighth season of letting and in all of that time only twice has the question of accessibility been raised. Once by a very elderly couple and once by a chap who was paralysed from the waist down. Following discussions, both booked and both said they had a super holiday.

I’m sure making one’s properties compatible with the “otherwise enabled� is a laudable thing to do but the details you mention would make a conversion prohibitively expensive, grants or no grants.

You are talking about a tiny niche market. Have you considered how one could go about promoting properties on that basis? Have you considered how one could ever hope to recover the capital cost involved? Personally, I think you are being totally unrealistic.

Fluffy

[vrooje]

This is an interesting idea.

Federal laws in the US have for some time given accessibility guidelines for businesses and public buildings. They have been on the books for about 10 years (I believe), but are only now becoming enforceable. Businesses in the US are now legally required to be fully accessible according to the law. This is actually causing problems for some small businesses, which have found themselves slapped with costly lawsuits because some trolling lawyer has driven past their property and seen that their curb ramp is too steep, their handicapped parking space is too narrow, etc.

As far as I know, in the US this law does NOT extend to private homes. So, I can't be sued if my mailman has a sprained ankle and can't get up the steps to my mailbox. But if the same mailman can't get up the stairs to my office, he can settle out of court for a tidy sum at the cost of my employer, who had better then have an accessibility review and do the needed work.

The question, at least for US owners, is: what is a holiday property? Is it a place of business or is it a private home? And could this be an equally important question in France or the UK?

[mpprh]

It really is an interesting niche and I really like the professionalism of the links that you passed on, the access auditors and the 'special interest' holidays seem to be very good quality. Can I ask what contacts you have had with them? Was it to assess and set up accessible gites or to be listed on your site.
I had a look at your site and I would very much like to be included in the listings. Don't want to sound too desperate but a rapididly deminishing bank account, a (nicely) demanding wife and four hungry little mouths to feed (not including the animals) means that I have to make a success of my practice or........

They contacted me, explained that the husband was disabled and that they were established disabled access auditors. They wanted a link in connection with the new gites. It was a bit out of my normal area, but I liked the idea and they have a logo link from me. Not sure if they link back to me. Most don't !

Peter

[Hells Bells]

John, I will leave things as they are until you hear from Paolo, as I think you have started an interesting discussion.

[Stu]

John,

we here at Le Chant have a choice of 2 disabled-friendly gites and a disabled-friendly campsite. Thanks for posting, it made interesting reading! We'd agree about the dearth of suitable accommodation here in France, but there are those among us who are trying to redress the balance.

Bon Chance!

[Giddy Goat]

I don't think the market is as tiny as Alan imagines and I wish you every success ergo. When we first bought our property, I considered making a few adaptations, but some of the doorways are a bit too narrow for wheelchairs, and since they are thick, and stone, it was a no-no. I'd have been willing to do it otherwise, as the other measures required would be relatively simple to put in place and we could have certainly offered one ensuite room on the ground floor. In fact I advertise the property as being unsuitable for wheelchair users but suitable for those with independent but limited mobility. Last year we did have a family stay, with a handicapped teenager who normally used a wheelchair but was able to manage inside the property with assistance.

If it means that disabled people and their families have a wider choice through your efforts to enlighten and assist property owners, it is a very good cause and I wish you success with it. Next step, a listing site dedicated wholly and solely to disabled friendly properties with whom families may book direct.

Or has that been thought of already?

[Alan Knighting]

GG,

I don't think the market is as tiny as Alan imagines.

I have no idea what the statistical figures might be, have you? All I can go on is how many times the subject has come up in eight years of being in the lettings business. That’s what my “imaginings� are based on; on what do you base your “imaginings�?

Putting all that aside I welcome every enterprise which is designed towards accommodating those less fortunate than myself. I think it is highly commendable but, as a property owner, I have to ask “at whose cost�? If an otherwise enabled person wants to stay in my property I’m more than willing to have my property modified to fit that person’s requirements with the proviso that he/she pays for it. Unfortunately, I’m fully aware that on that basis I’ll get no takers.

It could easily cost many thousands of pounds to modify an existing property and since I am not a charity I would like to know something – how do I recover the cost?

Fluffy

[Giddy Goat]

As a Speech and Language Therapist, I have spent the bulk of my working life with people disabled either through head injury, stroke,or progressive neurological diseases such as Parkinson's, Motor Neurone Disease etc. There is still an acute shortage of wheelchair friendly holiday venues for the independent traveller, carer and family, and I suspect that enquiries from this sector of the market will grow as the number of suitably equipped properties grows. The bulk of the families I have met have had very low expectations in terms of a holiday venue, and many simply choose to stay at home. This may well explain why there are so few of them attempting to find what they want in rural France!

But I agree, unless a property is purpose built, or is being created by converting space from a virtually blank canvas like a barn, and adjustments to door widths, loo and basin heights etc can be taken into consideration at the planning stage, and ramps rather than steps created, the rest of us who have to work around 'what we've got' may well find that the potential for meeting the needs of this sector of the market is limited. But no-one is putting pressure on us and saying it behoves us to do something, so don't get your pile in a twist Fluffy!

[Hells Bells]

GG, I think many of them are put off because they are only disappointed when they do search. Certainly my aunt goes on holiday in a touring caravan, as her son couldn't manage a flight of stairs, although he is not wheelchair bound, he relies on a stairlift at home due to balance problems.