Energy certificates for all hotels and vacation rentals too.

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CSE
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Energy certificates for all hotels and vacation rentals too.

Post by CSE »

The title limits what I can write but this law covers all buildings.
Theses are the ones that we are interested in.
This is late, but it was law implemented on the 2nd June 2021.
https://www.idealista.com/news/vacacion ... torio-para
As usual the fines do not fit the crime and even portals can be fined if they do not comply.
I have lost the will to live trying to read it all.
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
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Sanchisimo
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Post by Sanchisimo »

Thanks for the heads-up. So, just as the all important tourist industry is struggling to recover from a brutal 18 months, the government has come up with a pointless, bureaucratic way of making us have to spend yet more money.
Sunbeam
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Post by Sunbeam »

What never fails to amaze me is that despite being registered as a VTAR we have never received a single piece of correspondence from the tourist board (or whoever is in charge).

The rule that ignorance is no excuse is one thing - but when there is not even a website or Facebook page to actively check for new rules speaks volumes of the Bonkers Bureaucracy. If there is one - we've never been directed to it.

To be expected to read the Official State Gazette and trawl through every new regulation is ridiculous.

No doubt we'll have to be on the lookout for fake inspectors etc - this will be a scammers dream. And of course we will also be responsible if we're scammed and the maximum fine imposed.

Thanks for sharing and yes, got enough to contend with the pandemic.
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

I know it is very depressing. More costs, more bureaucracy too.
Found it just by accident. And confirmed by several other websites to try and establish the truth.
Talking of the BOE here is the link to the decree.
https://www.boe.es/buscar/pdf/2021/BOE- ... lidado.pdf
There are many businesses that are set up to undertake a an energy performance certificate (EPC). I would suggest anyone looking into having one done to use the Spanish search term an certificación de eficiencia energética (CEE) and the location.
If you use the English search term it goes back to one comapny based in one location. That may not be suitable for you. Your gestoría can help find a company to undertake this inspection.
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

I have just read CSE's post. If you bought your property in the last few years you should already have the certification. It has been law for a number of years that all residential properties offered for sale must have this certificate. You are most likely to find a copy stapled to the last page of the famous "copia simple of your escritura" or with all the papers connected with the purchase.. But if not the agent who sold you the property or if you used a lawyer. they will have it in their computer.
Although this sounds like another kick when your down, for anyone who is considering selling up, you will need it anyway. The original law stated that you had to have the energy certificate BEFORE you advertise your property for sale.
In whatever case, it looks like CSE has come across a very important factor.
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joddle
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Post by joddle »

I was getting a bit worried about all the differing information circulating about the need for energy certificates so engaged my Spanish Lawyer to investigate the issue for me especially in relation to the 2021 BOE. He has now confirmed that as I don't rent for more that a total of 4 months in the year and as I already own the property and am not changing its use etc or buying it or selling it, for now I don't need the energy certificate.

However, despite the legal situation in fact I will need one soon because in order to register my property with a new rental site (I am with SH at the moment but when my contract finishes I won't stay with their new organisation) I am always asked for the energy certificate number!!! - and of course I don't have one yet - also there is no way on the sites I have tried so far where you can state an exemption so they simply won't take my ad. The only way around that seems is to actually get an energy certificate which would not be a bad thing anyway if I find I need to sell sometime soon.
I don't profess to own anything here apart from my own opinion.
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

I have read through Decree 390 2021 and I feel that there is an element that needs clarification. It involves the old bogeyman of the difference between the blocks of Apartamentos Turisticos and private tourist rentals. As far as I understand it the new exemptions do not include the 4 months element like in the past.
However, my understanding of 390 2021 is that it applies to buildings of more than 500 square metres destined for uses that have public access. I am fairly sure that private dwellings offered for holiday lets are not affected by this new edict.
But I recommend that you neither trust just my opinion NOR THAT OF YOUR LAWYER because I don't think he is right.
Also, as you say, many of the sites will require the certificate by default and if you think you may sell your property in the next few years, you'll need it for that. So you are probably right to play safe and get the certificate anyway.
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

I too have not read anything about any exemptions due to limited period of rental.
I cannot go through all of the BOE. I did do a word search and it really did not through up anything.
To confirm I have used the terms/words:
cuatro meses. No result.
cuatro. Got one result in Artículo 20, para 3. It is not related.
meses. Got 7 results.
Page 6 not related. Page 12 not related. Page 19 not related. Page 20 not related. tow on page 2 not related.
turistas. Nothing found.
vacacional. Nothing found.
Apartamentos. Found of page 10.
Under I copy and paste in Spanish.
2. Se excluyen del ámbito de aplicación:
a) Edificios protegidos oficialmente por ser parte de un entorno declarado o en razón de
su particular valor arquitectónico o histórico, siempre que cualquier actuación de mejora de la
eficiencia energética alterase de manera inaceptable su carácter o aspecto, siendo la
autoridad que dicta la protección oficial quien determine los elementos inalterables.
b) Construcciones provisionales con un plazo previsto de utilización igual o inferior a dos
años.
c) Edificios industriales, de la defensa y agrícolas no residenciales, o partes de los
mismos, de baja demanda energética. Aquellas zonas que no requieran garantizar unas
condiciones térmicas de confort, como las destinadas a talleres y procesos industriales, se
considerarán de baja demanda energética.
d) Edificios independientes, es decir, que no estén en contacto con otros edificios y con
una superficie útil total inferior a 50 m2.
e) Edificios que se compren para su demolición o para la realización de las reformas
definidas en el apartado d) del artículo 3.1. Estos edificios estarán exentos de la obtención
del certificado de eficiencia energética de edificio existente de acuerdo con el artículo 10, sin
perjuicio, en su caso, del cumplimiento del artículo 9 una vez se vaya a acometer la reforma,
según lo referido en el apartado d) del artículo 3.1......
Have I missed anything?
What section does the lawyer say is relevant?
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
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joddle
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Post by joddle »

Whilst I could see what you are getting, I approached my lawyer again making the point you have brought up and this is the gist of what he replied.

Whilst the matter of exemptions it is not mentioned the new Royal Decree 390/2021, it eliminates the exemption for buildings with a use of less than 4 months of the year, only when they are being considered for new certification. Therefore, if you have a new contract, you must obtain it. For ones already in force in 2021, it is not necessary.
I don't profess to own anything here apart from my own opinion.
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

I have gone back again and read the full extent of the new law and also studied various comments from professionals and others. I studied it in detail as if I were doing a legal translation.
It is designed to bring the economic sector "terciario" into the picture, making it necessary to have an energy certificate. This is the SERVICE SECTOR and refers specifically to buildings with a floor area of over 500 sq metres. I can see nowhere that it refers to individual private dwellings neither to include them nor to exclude them.
So Decret 390/2021 does not apply to holiday lets in any shape or form. The reference to tourist rentals is for blocks of apartments over 500 sq/m that are operated as a business within the service sector similar to a hotel.
The previous law that refered to "viviendas" (dwellings) which are in the private sector have an exemption if the rental period is less than 4 months. There is no mention of this at all in 390 because it does not refer to this sector.
So joddle. Your lawyer appears to be correct in that the 4 month excemption still is in place for the private housing sector. I believe that the confusion has been created by the website idealista.com and others who have jumped the gun without properly studying the Decree.
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joddle
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Post by joddle »

The whole reason I went to a lawyer in the first place was because I thought something was either wrong or not being properly understood on this and other forums. My gut instinct appears to have been right and it is only by getting an legal expert to look at the BOE and the other information being circulated that the implications can now be properly understood. There was far too much in there for me and possibly any non Spanish lay person to completely get to grips with and so making decisions based on what you think it might be about could prove a very costly thing to do. Going to a proper Spanish lawyer in this case I believe was a very good investment.
I don't profess to own anything here apart from my own opinion.
Reiver
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Post by Reiver »

So, excuse me being a bit of a diddy, but are we saying now that the energy certificate is not required in the case of, for example, a single rental apartment or villa?
I accept that it may well be required if/when you come to sell the property, but I'm just trying to get a a handle on how urgent the issue is.
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joddle
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Post by joddle »

Reiver wrote:So, excuse me being a bit of a diddy, but are we saying now that the energy certificate is not required in the case of, for example, a single rental apartment or villa?
I accept that it may well be required if/when you come to sell the property, but I'm just trying to get a a handle on how urgent the issue is.
It will depend on exactly your circumstances and as has been seen already, taking advice on what is really a legal matter from a forum is pretty unreliable and is risky. The reply above from costa-brava seems to sum up the situation and may well mean you don't have to get a certificate at the moment BUT as I have already found out, you need a proper legal person to untangle all the small print and see what really applies to you. It is either that or take a risk based on what other people say and on this thread alone there have been many opposing opinions - some of which or none of which may be correct for you!
I don't profess to own anything here apart from my own opinion.
Reiver
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Post by Reiver »

I'm sorry and, yes, I should have added that I wasn't expecting anyone here to be advocating a legally binding statement. Opinions, of course, are just that and I appeciate the efforts that people make, and the research that you and others undertake, in order to get closer to the truth.
In this case, I just wanted to make sure that I had understood the situation correctly. Where Spanish law is concerned, I recognise that my knowledge and language skills are just not up to the job, so I'll happily latch on to an opinion from yourself, or others who have looked into the issue. Of course, and as you rightly point out, the next step is to approach our gestor and ask for her advice.
From what you say, though, I'm encouraged to note that there may not be quite the urgency that I had feared, so many thanks for that :)
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joddle
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Post by joddle »

Reiver wrote:I'm sorry and, yes, I should have added that I wasn't expecting anyone here to be advocating a legally binding statement. Opinions, of course, are just that and I appeciate the efforts that people make, and the research that you and others undertake, in order to get closer to the truth.
In this case, I just wanted to make sure that I had understood the situation correctly. Where Spanish law is concerned, I recognise that my knowledge and language skills are just not up to the job, so I'll happily latch on to an opinion from yourself, or others who have looked into the issue. Of course, and as you rightly point out, the next step is to approach our gestor and ask for her advice.
From what you say, though, I'm encouraged to note that there may not be quite the urgency that I had feared, so many thanks for that :)
It would appear for you there is no urgency - but that is only my opinion based on what I have found out for myself.
I don't profess to own anything here apart from my own opinion.
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