Electric car chargers

Agencies and other headaches, keys and cleaners, running costs and contracts...in short, all the things we spend so much of our time doing behind the scenes.<br>
Joanna
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Post by Joanna »

I believe that in the U.K. You're not allowed to charge more for electricity than you pay for it. Which makes it quite tricky to know how much to charge for car charging.

If we ever get a charging point we'll just increase all our prices by a small amount to cover it and adjust it as we get more experience with it. The same as we did with broadband.
Jo

Joint owner of Baker's Cottage in Chester & Chandler's Cottage in Sidmouth
newtimber
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Post by newtimber »

Joanna wrote:I believe that in the U.K. You're not allowed to charge more for electricity than you pay for it. Which makes it quite tricky to know how much to charge for car charging.
The cap does not apply to the resale of electricity for charging EV vehicles. This is why it can be expensive to charge EV vehicles when you're not at home.
Joanna
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Post by Joanna »

Useful to know Newtimber, thanks.

It's all a bit of a mystery to us - we live in a terrace house with on-street parking so I doubt we'll ever be able to own an electric car. I'm thinking that, in the long term, car ownership will decline for people in our situation and we'll rent electric cars as and when we need them.

In the meantime, we're not at the point yet where we can justify the cost of installing a proper charging point at our holiday cottages.
Jo

Joint owner of Baker's Cottage in Chester & Chandler's Cottage in Sidmouth
Martha
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Post by Martha »

CSE wrote:My argument is not about actual cost of filling a vehicle to run for a day. It is what are the owners going to include in the price of a stay.
Sure! Everyone's got to consider all these things. I feel it's in transition at the moment with EVs. Currently it's something a few people want, like cots and baby gates, or to use the air conditioning non stop, or to stay in with a roaring fire all day.

Also note with WhatsApp and Skype so universal...yes, I am effectively paying the client's phone bills during their stay as I provide a landline and free internet access!

I prefer to put prices up a bit and just accept that some guests will use some facilities more than others, and some will cost more than others. Other people prefer to account for all this and charge extra, if it works for them then fine.

But it's not long before EV charging is something almost everyone needs, like the internet. It's useful to see how others are thinking about this future provision. Some places are of course going to be easier than others to arrange a charging point.

T& Cs definitely needs to apply and also a plan B where you give them a map of local charging points they can use (currently in use as Plan A for us!)
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Cymraes
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Post by Cymraes »

Whilst we will be accounting for it in our overall charging structure at the moment, as soon as someone comes up with a suitable card/coin meter we'll be installing it, if demand becomes heavy enough to justify the fees that will undoubtedly come with them.

I think only 1 or 2 people have used ours in the 2 years it's been installed so at the moment it's a bit of a non issue. Lack of range is still too much of a downside for most people (including us).
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Post by newtimber »

Cymraes wrote:Whilst we will be accounting for it in our overall charging structure at the moment, as soon as someone comes up with a suitable card/coin meter we'll be installing it, if demand becomes heavy enough to justify the fees that will undoubtedly come with them.

I think only 1 or 2 people have used ours in the 2 years it's been installed so at the moment it's a bit of a non issue. Lack of range is still too much of a downside for most people (including us).
As ever it'll probably cost more to install and maintain the metering than you'll get from the fees.
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Post by Sunbeam »

Nuthatch wrote:Our electric car (a BMW i3) takes 30 kWh to charge fully from completely empty (so that would be an absolute maximum of £4.50 at 15p per kWh from a completely flat battery). On a typical home car charger that might take around 4-6 hours, or on a standard socket it might take 12 hours or longer (new rapid chargers at public sites might take as little as 20 minutes for a decent level of charge).

Realistically, when we stay away from home we probably would arrive with quite a low battery and need a big charge overnight. After that, we would probably only use a small amount of charge every day. Our car tells us how many kWh we've charged so we can calculate easily how much we owe, and we always offer to pay - for a few days stay it's probably in the region of £10-£15.

It's worth noting that it's virtually impossible to use vast amounts of electricity by charging multiple times per day - it's just not possible due to the time it takes to charge a vehicle.

Our car can also be set up to only charge on economy 7, which we have, so we're paying around 5-6p per kWh (equating to less than £2 for a full charge).

Hope that helps!
Thank you - really helpful
Fenacre
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Post by Fenacre »

I’m interested in this thread as I am thinking of having a charging point installed. We have economy seven so the night charge is small but we have two let’s here plus our own home so could end up needing three points. I say points rather than from the house supply as we also have workshop on site for my husbands business that is heavy on electric use. So I’m thinking of increasing our charges a small amount which to be fair I would have done next year anyway, but this would now be specifically to recover the costs of installation but not charging per charge per vehicle.. I did read somewhere about a year ago that people could plug in and be charged by a network so payment was made direct to the, and it didn’t impinge on our home elec bill. Any developments on this anyone know?
I do see the internet argument as remember the should we have it or not, should we charge or not should we have limits on it or not discussions. I was one of the get it, unlimited and include In overall pricing which I think most do now.
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Post by jeffers70 »

We have just got to our Cottage which we live 3 hours away so unable to visit in a regular basis. Just forwarded our electric readings to the supplier and the bill is about £200 higher than expected for this time of year. We have seen other cottages with cables dangling out of the window and into cars and always wondered how we would monitor this.I’m going to have to google what can be used but I thought that installing a smart meter would be the answer but I believe you are not able to obtain the readings via an app it just forwards the info onto the energy supplier. That would be the logical way to monitor usage if possible. Is there other options out there that can monitor usage and update you remotely to an app? As a fair usage policy could apply and then an extra charge for the extra usage. I don’t see the comparison with internet usage being similar as the costs to charge a car to cover a guests travel around the area and home is a considerable amount. I could see a weekly increase in booking cost of £50 to cover this but would all guests stomach this or book elsewhere!
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Post by Drax »

We have just had an electric car charger installed at our holiday let. It can only be used when activated with a RFID card which we will issue to our guests for a small charge if they require it.
If guests try to charge their car using the ordinary domestic socket, apart from 'bumping up' the electric bill, for Health and Safety reasons and insurance issues guests with electric cars must be informed that this practice is not allowed.
The FHL Terms and Conditions should state quite clearly that guests must not charge up their car via the ordinary electric domestic supply socket.
Keep your powder dry.
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Post by Joanna »

Hi Drax - just curious to know how much it cost you to get the charging socket installed? We'd do it if it wasn't too expensive.
Jo

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Post by Drax »

Joanna wrote:Hi Drax - just curious to know how much it cost you to get the charging socket installed? We'd do it if it wasn't too expensive.
Hi Joanna,
I have just posted a PM to you.
Keep your powder dry.
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Post by e-richard »

jeffers70 wrote:.. I don’t see the comparison with internet usage being similar.
The similarity goes back to the early noughties when forums such as this were crowded with discussions about how much to charge for WiFi; whereas today you would be laughed at for thinking of charging. And so it will be as the growth of EVs climbs meteorically. Expectations will change.
jeffers70 wrote:.. I could see a weekly increase in booking cost of £50 to cover this but would all guests stomach this or book elsewhere!
Again, think of the WiFi analogy and ask how many guests would NOT book if you did not supply it?

The time is now to be creative, install the charge points, build in the costs and think of and advertise this as a benefit, a plus, something your competitors are not offering. Even those with ordinary petrol cars will see the offer as an example of a progressive and welcoming host.
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Sunbeam
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Post by Sunbeam »

Hi e-richard

You make a very good point.

And guessing like wifi in the early days - figuring out what kind of router to get, how much download v upload speed etc is the norm - getting a suitable charging point for cars will throw up the same issues re a learning curve.

I've just googled things to consider when getting a charging point and still clueless! How much power trips the mains system? And what if 3 cars want to charge at the same time?

We're in Spain so electricity is supplied in different ways - depending on the maximum power you think the property might need at any one time. And recently new government tariffs depending on the time of day, depending on how you contract your electricity.

We recently had our first guest with a hybrid hire car and no idea if they charged it from an electrical socket through a bedroom window.

We 100% agree is the way forward – just need to try to understand it all!
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Post by CSE »

e-richard wrote:
jeffers70 wrote:.. I don’t see the comparison with internet usage being similar.
The similarity goes back to the early noughties when forums such as this were crowded with discussions about how much to charge for WiFi; whereas today you would be laughed at for thinking of charging. And so it will be as the growth of EVs climbs meteorically. Expectations will change.
jeffers70 wrote:.. I could see a weekly increase in booking cost of £50 to cover this but would all guests stomach this or book elsewhere!
Again, think of the WiFi analogy and ask how many guests would NOT book if you did not supply it?

The time is now to be creative, install the charge points, build in the costs and think of and advertise this as a benefit, a plus, something your competitors are not offering. Even those with ordinary petrol cars will see the offer as an example of a progressive and welcoming host.
And ironically these days everyone has data coverage on their phones.
Yet business owners are still providing "free" WI-FI when it is less likely needed these days.
However, unlike free Wi-Fi with a big mac they do not allow for the recharging the vehicles for free.
I do feel that the comparison between free Wi-Fi and free fuel for a vehicle is not comparable. One is more costly on the installation infrastructure and running cost afterwards. The other has insignificance costs in all areas.
Do not forget you are already subsidising owners of EVs and hybrids because of the the government grant gives form your tax money.
I see that Drax has not bowed to a free supply either they are charging for the use of a card.
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
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