Self catering Andalucia: multiple families/covid regulation

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Sunbeam
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Self catering Andalucia: multiple families/covid regulation

Post by Sunbeam »

Does anyone know what the regulation is in Andalucia about more than one family going on holiday together and staying in the same self-catering property?
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

I think you have to stop thinking "self catering". That doesn't really apply to the Spanish rules. We are talking about a house, I.E. a private house. So for the purposes of who can go and who can stay, that's what you need to consider.
At the moment my wife and I have our daughter and two kids who are staying two weeks. If one of our sons from Scotland or Canada decided to come next month (they won't) then we could accommodate them no problem. We are in Catalunya but it's basically the same in Andalucia. The regions are only changing fine detail.
So, as far as I can see, if you rent your property to any individual, they can invite whoever they want, provided the total number doesn't exceed what the house should have in normal times.
If the property is an apartment, it is much the same but there will be restrictions referring to communal areas and facilities.
I don't think you will ever get any specific ruling to your question. You have to pick through the rules that refer to travel, large gatherings, space between people etc.
You are renting out a house and the family who rent it are under the same rules as any Spanish family.
But there are no special "bubbles" or any other restriction of families coming together. Certainly none that I am aware of.
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CSE
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Re: Self catering Andalucia: multiple families/covid regulat

Post by CSE »

Sunbeam wrote:Does anyone know what the regulation is in Andalucia about more than one family going on holiday together and staying in the same self-catering property?
I have written in the past. and maybe it is hidden in the chaff :wink:
It has been announced that each comunidad autónoma will be issuing instructions for the Hostelería.
The wiki on these in Spanish. https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diario_of ... spa%C3%B1a
That, will give you links to the wiki on the various boletines. There you will find links to that comunidad's boletine. Hopefully members here can post update if they come into force.
viewtopic.php?t=29438
I would strongly advise you to double check what maybe be written in any newspaper/social media.They have had many stories that have turned out to be speculation.
Maybe this is a start for you: https://www.juntadeandalucia.es/organis ... vid19.html
Don't forget that a tourist let you are obliged to send the guests details to the GC. That means that perhaps it is not so private any more :)
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

Holiday let properties are "alquileres particulares". They are based on private transaction. They are not "hosteleria", If anyone can find a source or website that says different, I will accept that. In the meantime I am sure there is nothing to guide you about the number etc of people in your property except the same basic rules that affect everybody in Spain.
I have checked with a few of my more knowledgeable Spanish friends and that is their opinion.
The number and make up of the group in your property relates to its capacity, not to anything special relating to Covid-19.
Sunbeam
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Post by Sunbeam »

Thank you CSE and we do register guests with the GC - as Costa Brava says, it is a completely private house (just registered for rural tourism) - no shared public areas or services provided.

Thank you CB for asking around and for your insight.
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fincafern
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Post by fincafern »

"Hostelerias "provide services. We are registered with the guardia as "hospederia" which means hostelry - different connotation.
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

Hi Fincafern
This is in your own website.
"Registered with Turismo Junta de Andalucia - Viviendas Rurales VTAR/MA 0674/5."
I'm not absolutely sure how it pans out with rural accommodations because they were in existence long before the more recent regulations on holiday lets.
But "vivienda" means dwelling in English, which effectively is "home". When you rent it to another person it becomes their home for the period of the contract.
The rental contract is "particular a particular" or "entre particulares" where PARTICULAR means a private individual.
Any transaction between individuals is treated differently to a business transaction. For this the important aspect is how you are registered with the Agencia Tributaria (tax office). If you are running a business that is registered as; autonomo, SA, SL or as a cooperative etc you will be deemed to be "hosteleria". Every type of business has an "epigrafo" which simply means business sector. For over 30 years mine was for "ensenanza y formacion" which is education and training (my English Language School). At one point we had 8 holiday rental properties but this was never part of the "hosteleria" sector because the were all private dwellings.
If you are renting "particular a particular" it is a private transaction, not part of "hosteleria".
With respect to Covid-19, your property seems to be one building divided up into two. If that is the case, I am pretty sure you will be expected to follow the rules about shared spaces. And if you are registered with Agencia Tributaria as a business, this will definitely affect you because you will be considered to be a business engaged in "hosteleria".
Here's the easy part. Everybody knows what the "escritura" is, IE your document which proves you bought the property. Usually about page 3 is a description of the property. For nearly all of you guys it will say "VIVIENDA". My house is composed of 3 apartments all stated as "vivienda" with the ground floor designated as "local" (business premises) which used to be a restaurant but became our language school (now closed).
So if we were still doing holiday lets, we would have to monitor the use of the stairway because it is shared between the 3 upper floors. This would, by my interpretation, apply to their state as dwellings with shared access, nothing to do with whether or not we were "hosteleria".
One last point that is especially related to Sunbeam's original question. In Spain your home is YOUR home regardless of whether you bought it, rented it, or occupied it as a squat. You cannot enter the property to check on who is in it. I found myself in that situation once when a group of young people (about 15) were in a little house for 6. I had to eat a lot of humble pie to stop the Mossos charging me with illegal entry.
This is all a bit long-winded but these are important points.
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

CB I wonder where you and the "mates2 are getting your information.
It is not correct. You are not a legal person and your arguments when interpretation of Spanish law into English equivalent is nether here or there. Your arguments are just too simplistic and miss a lot of information on issues about length of contracts, tennets rights landlords obligations and more.

I gave a link to the Junta de Andalucìa website with information. That links through to other information like this page which groups Hoteles and Apartamentos turísticos in the same PDF. That has been published y ICTE. Please not they are not vivienda(s).
I again will say that any accommodation in Spain, (especially with a licnce to operate) is not a private dwelling. The property has to comply with various regulations and laws. That could cover levels of occupancy, equipment, etc. or as now cleaning laws.
I would enough Sunbeam to do some more investigation on this using the links I have given and using some important phases contained in the website/PDF. Maybe there is no regulation about what sort of groups are allowed, maybe there is.
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
Sunbeam
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Post by Sunbeam »

Thank you CSE - the links are a good source of info for cleaning and other regulation.

Thanks too CB for your thoughts.

Doesn't seem that there is anything specific about more than one family staying.
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Post by costa-brava »

CSE is totally correct. "Apartamentos turisticos are not viviendas"
In fact the term usually refers to blocks of tourist apartments built specially for that purpose. They are normally under the ownership of one person,company or syndicate. They are totally different to "viviendas turisticas" but it's very easy to confuse the two.
I think there are a few people in LMH who have one of these businesses but most LMH-posters own a villa or town-house or an apartment in a residential block.
This website of the Ayuntamiento de Andalucia is very clear that our type of holiday let licence is for a "vivienda" destined for residencial use. The licence permits the owner to rent it on a temporary basis.
https://www.juntadeandalucia.es/organis ... rismo.html
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