Paypal chargeback - any experience?

From the moment they step through the door your bookings become guests, and their experiences determine whether they ever come back.
ianh100
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Location: Sherborne Dorset

Paypal chargeback - any experience?

Post by ianh100 »

Hi All,

Has anyone had experience with Paypal chargeback? We just had our account frozen (a large negative charge back) for a guest that stayed a couple of months back.

This was a booking via Facebook which was a bit strange at the time. They paid the deposit by bank transfer but wanted to pay the rest cash on arrival which we refused and suggested Paypal.

The guests stayed, enjoyed and were asking to book again next year. Now we get this chargeback that looks like it is a credit card company disputing an unauthorized payment.

I contacted the guest who seemed in phased by this and suggested it was her ex partner who had done this (for some reason he had paid for the booking). She said that she had been contacted by someone else with a similar complaint.

My experience with Paypal is they always lean towards the buyer and just give the money back. If that happens I am not sure where it leaves me other than out of pocket.

I provided lots of evidence to Paypal. I have all of the guests details including an electronic acceptance of our T&C. I have all of the correspondence and I have screen shots of the guest staying at the property as they are using this as their facebook profile!

Its not clear if this is a bitter ex partner or if the card details were used fraudulently. If Paypal give the card company the funds back I assume my only option is to pursue the guest and threaten a small claims case.

Anyone faced this before?
Zingara
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Post by Zingara »

I assume that they're within the time limits for a charge-back...although it may not be relevant if there's a fraud claim pending? Presumably you can only 'thaw' your Paypal account by allowing the funds to be returned?

You've done what you can to show that she genuinely stayed, there may not be much more you can do ?

Your only option may well be to claim from the guest. You should inform her that the payment is her responsibility, and ask her to settle. If she doesn't, then, yes, small claims court...

As nice a guest as she was, you won't be welcoming her back, will you?
ianh100
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:37 pm
Location: Sherborne Dorset

Post by ianh100 »

Hi Zingara,

The payment was in September so I think this is not the normal Paypal chargeback process. It reads as if a credit card company has raised it with Paypal and an unauthorised payment.

You are correct I can only "thaw" my account by paying several hundred pounds in. To make that more annoying we had over £200 in the account from recent Ebay sales of some of my kids stuff.
COYS
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Location: Greek Islands

Re: Paypal chargeback - any experience?

Post by COYS »

Don’t they have Resolution Centre for such things rather than hanging you out to the small claims process? Seems a long time to uncover a possible card fraud & unless it is blatant fraud you seem to have the ball firmly in your court.
Are PP actively looking into it whilst your account is frozen or just leaving you to it? Surely not?
I’m not sure legally where it would leave you in chasing repayment - from the guest that stayed, who already seems unperturbed by it or the ex that ‘paid’. No help now but lesson 1 would be to not accept 3rd party payments.
I use PP sparingly these days or as a last resort & although have never suffered it, always thought the chargeback process is wide open to abuse or spurious claim - isn’t it 180 days now? (CMIIW) That’s a long time, especially in this business.
This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires.
ianh100
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:37 pm
Location: Sherborne Dorset

Post by ianh100 »

Hi Coys, We are in the "resolution" process I just worry that they will take the path of least resistance and take the money from the seller (me).
COYS
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Location: Greek Islands

Post by COYS »

I hope not ianh100, although unfortunately I suppose that is always their easy route out. There seems to be dwindling protection for sellers or providers these days & yet bucketloads for buyers.
Stick to your guns & best of luck with it.
This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires.
akwe-xavante
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Location: East Yorkshire

Post by akwe-xavante »

Looks to me as though the guests paid by card via the PayPal service and the card holder has requested a chargeback from the card company. Only the card holder can do this, If the card is in joint names then either person can request a chargeback. If her ex partner paid with a card in his name only then only he can request a charge back on that transaction, she can't.

She may of booked but did he pay, or i'll beggar the question....... Did she book and then pay using someone else's card without permission, be it her partners or a cloned / stolen card.

Did she dump him and he's very bitter and want's his money back!? He will get his money back claiming she booked in her name and used his card without his permission. Or he may even claim that he does not know what the money taken was for at all!!! If asked who Mrs Smith is, he'll just say that he has no idea. He'll get his money back.

Paypal and eBay seller / buyer protection NO NO NO it's all about eBay and Paypal protecting themselves firstly then the buyer, never the seller and especially if your account is a business account.

I take payments for my eBay sales using paypal for things under £50, over this value I never offer paypal as an option for buying something I sell and never to overseas buyers.

I may be proven wrong but if I were you I would wave bye bye to the money and move on and never take payments in future via paypal. Keep trying obviously, don't give in, but I'd consider it gone myself.

Paying for things via the Paypal system is great for the buyer and when it all goes smoothly it's great for the seller too. But if things go wrong the seller invariably looses out every time even when it's not there fault. Well that's my experience anyway.
Zingara
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Location: Antibes, PACA

Post by Zingara »

Agree with A-X...the chargeback is likely to be 'honoured' if it's fraudulent, for whatever reason (all of the above seem likely!)

It still remains the booker's financial responsibility, and whilst you might not get anywhere, it's surely worth invoicing her...?
ianh100
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Location: Sherborne Dorset

Post by ianh100 »

Hi All,
Paypal have now charged me an additional £14 chargeback fee and have clarified that anything they can't track with an online tracking service (physical product) is not covered by the so called seller protection. We will no longer take Paypal, a lesson learned.

I am still in contact with the original guest who has thankfully not blocked me on Facebook. They have told us they will settle the debt but lets wait and see.
Joanna
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Post by Joanna »

Sorry to hear about this Ian, I think it's time I removed PayPal from our payment options too. We used to find that overseas guests preferred it but I've recently set up Wave & Stripe for card payments so hopefully that will replace PayPal. Although, I suppose that a similar thing could happen with any card payment.
Jo

Joint owner of Baker's Cottage in Chester & Chandler's Cottage in Sidmouth
russellt
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Post by russellt »

Joanna wrote:I think it's time I removed PayPal from our payment options too.
+1
Web: https://yofftoo.com/property/esmes-cottage
Twitter/Facebook/Instagram: @esmescottage
ianh100
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:37 pm
Location: Sherborne Dorset

Post by ianh100 »

Hi All, an update but not a great one.

My "guest" has continued to promise to pay the outstanding money but it never came. I gave a number of warnings and finally raised a small claims process. (more money wasted).

Doing a bit of research this evening and I came across a couple of press articles all about my lovely guest.

http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/ipswi ... -1-4096074

Having been in jail three times in recent years for theft and fraud I don't think I am going to see my money back.

I even upgraded her and her family!!!

Thank god it was a week in the autumn and not the summer.
COYS
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Post by COYS »

Ouch!
No help to you at all ianh100 & I know it was an FB origin booking. But with holiday lets seemingly crashing toward a no contact, instant/book now future, 'managed' by disinterested 3rd parties there will be increased opportunity for the unscrupulous to exploit.
The chargeback process appears heavily weighted for buyers but offers almost nothing to sellers/providers paying the high processing fees.
This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires.
Fleur
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PayPal dilemma

Post by Fleur »

@Ianh100

My sympathies. What a dreadful experience, you couldn't make it up could you!
Fleur
Ecosse
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Post by Ecosse »

Ooft, that's rough, Ianh, my sympathies. I can see how you didn't suspect anything during their holiday either: she looks so normal in her photo.
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