UK In/Out referendum

[pambon]

Jimbo wrote:It's my belief that the UK was never really 'in Europe' and the referendum result proves this point. From Thatcher onwards, successive UK governments have tried to cherry pick the things they wanted from EU and discard the rest. In the past 20 years, UK politicians and the press have conducted a relentless and tawdry campaign against the EU, even when they were enjoying the fruits of membership.

If May had really wanted to stay in the EU, she would have campaigned strongly for that result, instead of sitting quietly on the fence and dropping the odd sly hint that she was sympathetic to some of Brexit's aims - the better placed to seize the leadership if it all went tits up.

+ 1

[CSE]

lorca.. Still do not understand this self pity that several on this forum have expressed. The referendum has happened, we do not know what the outcome to be. We have no control. We all have to get on with a bad job. Alternatively a black dog may visit you.

What about that idea of obtaining a Spanish citizenship to be able to overcome any future trouble? Are you not willing to go down that road?

[CSE]

If the events of the past couple of months haven't taught us anything else , it's surely not to trust ever again what lying and self-interested politicians tell us.

Yes Jimbo never a true word said, however as they are in power we have to listen to what is being said. That includes those in the EU.
Alternative is listen to what the conspiracists say and we would not wish to go there.

[greenbarn]

.. Still do not understand this self pity that several on this forum have expressed.

This thread, which I've followed without getting involved, is highly charged with the raw emotions and genuine fears of many people. It can be impossible for some people to understand the feelings of others, which makes it easy to dismiss those feelings as irrelevant. Once someone can recognise that it's impossible for them to understand, they might then recognise the pointless nature of their posts, even if they can't understand how deeply upsetting they can be to others.

[French Cricket]

Well said, GB.

[Ecosse]

lorca.. Still do not understand this self pity that several on this forum have expressed.

The referendum has happened, we do not know what the outcome to be. We have no control. We all have to get on with a bad job. Alternatively a black dog may visit you.

I have no self pity (not that I think you mean me) because in the first instance, (dog's) Brexit actually benefits me. However, as I've said before, it's not about me, it's about what's good for everyone and, quite frankly, I'm not willing to sit at the back of the Brexit bus saying, 'hey man, go with the flow... trust the ones at the wheel,' as the bus careers towards a cliff. I'll be doing my absolute to get to the front of the bus and steer it away from disaster. And yes, scaremongering aside, I firmly believe Brexit is bad news for everyone bar a few elite with lots of money.

One sure way of ensuring that we have no control is if we do nothing. Perhaps it will all be in vain, but what's I'm willing to take that risk. At least I will have tried!

A few other clarifications :

1) You mentioned that Poland are blaming the Nice attack on France's policies on multiculturalism. You do know their government is swinging towards the far right, so if course they would say that. As one Polish friend told me, she thinks this narrow mindedness amongst her fellow countrymen 'left behind' is to do with a lack of 2 way immigration in her country... and it's not good.

2) You mentioned a number of British inventions. Yes, very true. What you didn't mention is that the rest of the world looked at those British inventions and cherry picked the best bits (particularly the NHS) and improved on them. The Brits are great inventors... we are lousy developers! Always (smugly) thinking we are the best at everything and therefore isolating ourselves from reality, can only be detrimental. Even more so if we haven't got the EU to keep us in check.

3) Finally, you mentioned environmental matters. An old friend who is biodiversity officer for the Cairngorms National Park dropped by this week. We asked him what Brexit means to the CNP. He shook his head and said, 'we don't know what to do. Our works plan for the next 10 years was based on obtaining EU funding. All of those projects are now on the back burner. We're in no way confident that Westminster will fill the gap... they're bound to find something closer to London to fund, instead.' That's the thing about EU funding, it is more fairly distributed... far better for all the peripheral communities who otherwise get overlooked by their governments.

So, rather than berate fellow LMHers for their 'self pity', perhaps a bit of empathy would be nicer? Their fears are real, and with a bit if empathy, we should all be able to see that their fears are part of the much bigger picture, which will affect us all.

[lorca]

lorca.. Still do not understand this self pity that several on this forum have expressed. The referendum has happened, we do not know what the outcome to be. We have no control. We all have to get on with a bad job. Alternatively a black dog may visit you.

What about that idea of obtaining a Spanish citizenship to be able to overcome any future trouble? Are you not willing to go down that road?

Not sure why I'm bothering to reply to this but here goes. If you really want to understand (which I am beginning to doubt) then go back and read people's posts with a bit more care. If you do that you will find the answer to that question too.

[CSE]

gitemontjoly

So, rather than berate fellow LMHers for their 'self pity', perhaps a bit of empathy would be nicer? Their fears are real, and with a bit if empathy, we should all be able to see that their fears are part of the much bigger picture, which will affect us all.

Never berated. Just do not understand the anger at this democratic vote. It as if being on the side of a looser in a democratic vote is not a good place to stand. Would you like it it the exiters asked for a second vote if they had lost? Would you accept the anger from this group if the EU started its plan to move to a federal Europe and they all started say we told you so?

You write about empathy. There does not seem much coming from the remainers on LMH. Nothing about accepting democracy is there? Nothing to say, graciously, we lost that argument. Plus now all we see the remainers, on this forum, not understanding the neutral(for both sides) message we have posted. (And we have also noted that the "other side" are staying silent).

That message is: There is no telling if anyone of us will be here to see the result of this. To put it simply, life is too short for this doom and gloom. We must get on with our lives. What has happen has happened. We the "little people" cannot influence anything now it is too late. However, we have not left, the sky has not collapsed, the earth still rotates and Article 50 may never ever be triggered. When it is there is no telling what will happen, if at all.

[kevsboredagain]

Just do not understand the anger at this democratic vote.

You really don't understand why people are angry. This referendum was a farce. Lying to the public and promising all sorts of nonsense is NOT democracy. A true democracy comes from an informed public so there is no way anyone can claim to be proud of what has happened. There are no "winners" and "losers" here, only losers. Nobody "lost" the argument and nobody "won" it either. The fact that millions voted for something so complex that very few even understand a fraction of it, is nothing to be proud of. It was a a failed political move on the part of Cameron and the UK lost. 52% telling 48% how to live their lives is never going to work.

The anger comers from people who's lives will be turned upside down by this, from the people working for businesses who's future is suddenly in doubt and depended on the EU for their very existence and success. Most of the young people and business world did not want this and they have every right to be angry and will continue to be so for many years to come.

Those people have to consider their futures now, not in 2 years when it might be too late.

[Hells Bells]

There are quite a few people we know who voted to leave, mainly as a protest to the Cameron regime, but also because they thought there would be a plan in place. They are angry too, because they were lied to.

[CSE]

kev Once again your post is at heart of the feelings that Stayers give. You have not cared to give some sensible answers to our questions instead just a quote. You sound like that chap who once was in PMQT. Thankfully now gone.

When you say

Lying to the public and promising all sorts of nonsense is NOT democracy.

Well that is politics for you. Besides you definition is not what can be found on the internet.

[CSE]

There are quite a few people we know who voted to leave, mainly as a protest to the Cameron regime,

But that was rather silly thing to do. He can be removed by elections. The question on the referendum paper was quite clear about that issue.

[Casscat]

*Looks for brick wall to bang head against*

[greenbarn]

*Looks for brick wall to bang head against*

Meanwhile, we could all look up the dictionary definitions of "patronising" and "condescending".

[Big Sis..]

Ow gosh Patrick you must be a mind reader ...😳I was just doing exactly that .....patronising does begin with a p doesn't it?....