So what next?
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salmoncottage
- Posts: 294
- Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:54 pm
So what next?
So what next for any rental owners who dont want to be subject to penalties or be handicapped by listing sites for not accepting their ever rising commission fees, booking fees, hurry up and book now, payments after arrivals etc etc etc? We realise that many owners have already accepted and now work with these systems, but what about those who dont/wont? Is there any listing sites out there that are worth subscribing to who dont expect you to jump through the above hoops but might give a reasonable return for paying a listing fee? Or have they all been gobbled up by expedia etc? The many helpful posts here seem to get smothered with more and more 'fees info' from all the big sites.... :roll
'Oh, I do like to be beside the seaside'
Salmon, I'm not thrilled by the 'good news' today either. I was considering posting a link to the video message from Expedia on my facebook page and asking guests what they thought of their new traveller service fee. But is there any point?
Our subscription has just expired and last year owners direct generated so few bookings that it cost us 14% (as opposed to just 3% on hl). I was actually looking to renew as pay per booking but it's not available to me as an Irish property owner living in Ireland.
According to my (unscientific, non-technical) best match algorithm, Expedia are ranked bottom. The lack of information, the misinformation and the poor/no response to emails is appalling.
I have harvested all email addresses from owners direct enquiries for the last two years (that didn't take long!) and will message everyone detailing why we are no longer advertising with them with emphasis on the traveller service fee, the unfairness of 'double dipping' and advising them of the benefits of booking direct with owners. I'm a very small fish in an enormous ocean, it won't make any difference to Expedia but it might make me feel better.
Our subscription has just expired and last year owners direct generated so few bookings that it cost us 14% (as opposed to just 3% on hl). I was actually looking to renew as pay per booking but it's not available to me as an Irish property owner living in Ireland.
According to my (unscientific, non-technical) best match algorithm, Expedia are ranked bottom. The lack of information, the misinformation and the poor/no response to emails is appalling.
I have harvested all email addresses from owners direct enquiries for the last two years (that didn't take long!) and will message everyone detailing why we are no longer advertising with them with emphasis on the traveller service fee, the unfairness of 'double dipping' and advising them of the benefits of booking direct with owners. I'm a very small fish in an enormous ocean, it won't make any difference to Expedia but it might make me feel better.
I left OD in January and have tested the water with various other sites. They have brought in a handful of bookings each but nothing has replaced OD for how it used to be a few years ago. I am working hard on social media, getting repeat bookings and testing out a few other sites I have yet to try. I also think going specialist is an option ie very dog/children/golf friendly etc or offering something different ie art courses etc
My question though, is where is everyone booking if they are no longer using OD et al? Are people not going on holiday or is it the fact that actually there are too many holiday lets out there? The explosion of the internet has given us all the potential to promote our lets in the way that an ad in the back of The Lady never could. Is it simply that everyone now has a holiday let on offer and there are not enough holidaymakers to go round?
My question though, is where is everyone booking if they are no longer using OD et al? Are people not going on holiday or is it the fact that actually there are too many holiday lets out there? The explosion of the internet has given us all the potential to promote our lets in the way that an ad in the back of The Lady never could. Is it simply that everyone now has a holiday let on offer and there are not enough holidaymakers to go round?
I agree with that and it is what I shall shortly do. If every owner with a private website did that, then even small fishes in great numbers will together make a huge shoal. I have made a list of 8 years worth of OD customers' email addresses, and I know that all of them were happy in some degree with their stay. Call it spamming if you like, but I will Mailchimp them with a pleasantly worded email saying not to look on OD for us any more and telling them where they can now find us.mmg wrote:I have harvested all email addresses from owners direct enquiries for the last two years (that didn't take long!) and will message everyone detailing why we are no longer advertising with them with emphasis on the traveller service fee, the unfairness of 'double dipping' and advising them of the benefits of booking direct with owners. I'm a very small fish in an enormous ocean, it won't make any difference to Expedia but it might make me feel better.
I think you are right, Rosie, but it's only an opinion, that there are now too many holiday lets out there and it has become very much a buyer's market. So many new owners have jumped on the bandwagon, that it is now overloaded.Rosie wrote:My question though, is where is everyone booking if they are no longer using OD et al? Are people not going on holiday or is it the fact that actually there are too many holiday lets out there? The explosion of the internet has given us all the potential to promote our lets in the way that an ad in the back of The Lady never could. Is it simply that everyone now has a holiday let on offer and there are not enough holidaymakers to go round?
And added to that, hotels are getting their act together (well they are where I live). They are starting to look more appealing and providing all sorts of additional facilities, i.e. spas, gyms etc. Alongside that, hotels are being advertised heavily on TV with an emphasis on offering bargain prices.
It is easy to blame the big listing sites for a fall-off in bookings, but I think the reasons are much wider than just that.
There really do exist sites which can bring cheap and convertible leads. I run one, but I’m not posting here to promote it - I ‘wear two hats’, as I also have a couple of holiday properties, so am always chasing the next booking(s). A particular issue is that owners who are doing well from a listing site are, quite logically, very unlikely to recommend it to other owners nearby, as doing so might cannibalise their business.
Reading posts here, in another popular forum on Linkedin and in various other places, I see people running around in circles and entirely failing to move forward. Criticising what the big sites do can occasionally have marginal effects if enough people have a go, but doesn’t substantially alter anything.
As AndrewH and Rosie mention, there are too many properties in the market in some areas, which equates to a bubble. They tend to go ‘pop’ which is quite scary. It’s worth having a contingency in place if doing so is possible. Some properties are quite suitable for residential letting - in UK, and in much of France unless it’s the back of beyond - which is a potential fallback.
Creating and utilising a mailing list is certainly worth doing, although the returns can be pretty thin. Even if they really loved the accommodation, a lot of people are more interested in trying somewhere different for their next holiday.
What I’d suggest mainly is to make the most of what you have now. Of course, try to develop other sustainable channels along the way. But while you’ve got paid no-commission ads running: Fill them with really good pics (hire a pro if you can’t take good ones), as many as you are allowed - not dark, not sideways by mistake, not externals on dull days, not the toilet. Make sure the text is of good length, minimum 500 words, broken into reasonably short paragraphs and in a logical order, telling the whole story, leaving nothing out. Use the calendar and update it often - it might be a ranking factor, and even if it isn’t the data will result in (some) better enquiries. Make sure clear pricing is there on the page. Stay duration - minimum 3 nights deters weekends bookings, they might be handy in low season. Some people are time-poor but have budget so offer min 2 nights but charge the same as 3, you will get takers in some locations. Conversion is absolutely key - reply almost immediately even if well outside working hours, and phone follow-up within max 12 hours if no reply to the e-mail.
Hope that helps. Still trying to wean myself off airbnb! I don’t like it, it’s just something that won’t go away.
Reading posts here, in another popular forum on Linkedin and in various other places, I see people running around in circles and entirely failing to move forward. Criticising what the big sites do can occasionally have marginal effects if enough people have a go, but doesn’t substantially alter anything.
As AndrewH and Rosie mention, there are too many properties in the market in some areas, which equates to a bubble. They tend to go ‘pop’ which is quite scary. It’s worth having a contingency in place if doing so is possible. Some properties are quite suitable for residential letting - in UK, and in much of France unless it’s the back of beyond - which is a potential fallback.
Creating and utilising a mailing list is certainly worth doing, although the returns can be pretty thin. Even if they really loved the accommodation, a lot of people are more interested in trying somewhere different for their next holiday.
What I’d suggest mainly is to make the most of what you have now. Of course, try to develop other sustainable channels along the way. But while you’ve got paid no-commission ads running: Fill them with really good pics (hire a pro if you can’t take good ones), as many as you are allowed - not dark, not sideways by mistake, not externals on dull days, not the toilet. Make sure the text is of good length, minimum 500 words, broken into reasonably short paragraphs and in a logical order, telling the whole story, leaving nothing out. Use the calendar and update it often - it might be a ranking factor, and even if it isn’t the data will result in (some) better enquiries. Make sure clear pricing is there on the page. Stay duration - minimum 3 nights deters weekends bookings, they might be handy in low season. Some people are time-poor but have budget so offer min 2 nights but charge the same as 3, you will get takers in some locations. Conversion is absolutely key - reply almost immediately even if well outside working hours, and phone follow-up within max 12 hours if no reply to the e-mail.
Hope that helps. Still trying to wean myself off airbnb! I don’t like it, it’s just something that won’t go away.
Having been fully booked out by OD for the last 12 yrs (even when using/trying other sites) I can empathise.
Putting all my concerns aside, I have yet to find a site that works...or even brings in enquiries. I have still had 12 wks of bookings from OD but most were from before xmas.
So what have I done; well sadly I feel I have gone backward whilst searching for bookings. I'm now working with 2 agents plus a new targeted, local website (just launched but with a huge mailing list of Ibiza dedicated people).
I have paid for keywords advice and managed to get on blog trial with PMP who host my website.
I too have all the email addresses and I'm even considering using all the addys of the enquirers too.....though that would be a big, one off, mail out.
I will continue to try other sites tho I hate the cancellation policy of Abnb so would only use those for last minutes or hard to shift weeks.
The one thing I fear is that we might struggle customer type. ...families. But this could also be because Ibiza is moving towards vip status
and that might change the game too. Along with expensive flights they are also at later times than families would travel. One reason maybe why we have a prime week unsold.
Times are a - changing. And not for the better.
Mouse
x
Putting all my concerns aside, I have yet to find a site that works...or even brings in enquiries. I have still had 12 wks of bookings from OD but most were from before xmas.
So what have I done; well sadly I feel I have gone backward whilst searching for bookings. I'm now working with 2 agents plus a new targeted, local website (just launched but with a huge mailing list of Ibiza dedicated people).
I have paid for keywords advice and managed to get on blog trial with PMP who host my website.
I too have all the email addresses and I'm even considering using all the addys of the enquirers too.....though that would be a big, one off, mail out.
I will continue to try other sites tho I hate the cancellation policy of Abnb so would only use those for last minutes or hard to shift weeks.
The one thing I fear is that we might struggle customer type. ...families. But this could also be because Ibiza is moving towards vip status
and that might change the game too. Along with expensive flights they are also at later times than families would travel. One reason maybe why we have a prime week unsold.Times are a - changing. And not for the better.
Mouse
x
Last edited by Mouse on Fri May 13, 2016 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
One martini, two martini, three martini floor!
Oh, I don't know, mmg, small fish can make a very large shoal. I fly frequently and I boycotted Ryanair for over a year and flew Aer Lingus instead because I was so fed up with their booking, procedures, attitude and charges. Lo and behold, their profits went down, Mr O'Leary saw sense, streamlined the infuriating booking process with traps ( shades of Homeaway) and became a cuddly caring airline instead.mmg wrote:I'm a very small fish in an enormous ocean, it won't make any difference to Expedia but it might make me feel better.
Edited to say that I did not read beyond your post when I answered this and Andew H had precisely the same thought about fish!
To answer your question to "what sites are working" I think for a lot of people this year it is trial & error with other websites and local agencies again we have found it harder to find bookings this year but this site is great for ideas. For me I joined lots of other websites costing a good bit of time and money but it is a test as I need to know what works for our area.
One thing that did work was leaving my calender empty at least then I was getting enquiries and could ask guests to change dates I know you get penalised by going down the list of search results but it did work. The big listing sites will have to change some bit as most people booking a family holiday are flexible with dates.
Holiday makers tend to know the country, the month of travel and the number of people travelling and having hundreds of properties available makes it confusing.
If the sites are going to penalise for not having calenders up to date then they need to allow guests to choose a whole month eg these calenders are up to date and have availability for a minimum of 7 nights in August and sleeps x+ guests.
One thing that did work was leaving my calender empty at least then I was getting enquiries and could ask guests to change dates I know you get penalised by going down the list of search results but it did work. The big listing sites will have to change some bit as most people booking a family holiday are flexible with dates.
Holiday makers tend to know the country, the month of travel and the number of people travelling and having hundreds of properties available makes it confusing.
If the sites are going to penalise for not having calenders up to date then they need to allow guests to choose a whole month eg these calenders are up to date and have availability for a minimum of 7 nights in August and sleeps x+ guests.
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costa-brava
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:57 am
- Location: costa brava spain
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Rosie wrote:
My question though, is where is everyone booking if they are no longer using OD et al? Are people not going on holiday or is it the fact that actually there are too many holiday lets out there? The explosion of the internet has given us all the potential to promote our lets in the way that an ad in the back of The Lady never could. Is it simply that everyone now has a holiday let on offer and there are not enough holidaymakers to go round?
I agree with Rosie's view too, albeit without any real figures. It just seems that the crisis pushed many "second residence" owners into looking for extra cash. And this also pushed down prices while pushing up quality. Some second residences tend to be nicer than a standard holiday let.
But here's another thought. Many years ago in my university marketing studies we did the "product life cycle". It seems to me that traditional holiday rentals are on the downward side of the graph.
There has been a massive swing towards online booking via Airbnb et al and I believe that city properties have recently enjoyed a boost but I have seen a steady slide of interest.
My question though, is where is everyone booking if they are no longer using OD et al? Are people not going on holiday or is it the fact that actually there are too many holiday lets out there? The explosion of the internet has given us all the potential to promote our lets in the way that an ad in the back of The Lady never could. Is it simply that everyone now has a holiday let on offer and there are not enough holidaymakers to go round?
I agree with Rosie's view too, albeit without any real figures. It just seems that the crisis pushed many "second residence" owners into looking for extra cash. And this also pushed down prices while pushing up quality. Some second residences tend to be nicer than a standard holiday let.
But here's another thought. Many years ago in my university marketing studies we did the "product life cycle". It seems to me that traditional holiday rentals are on the downward side of the graph.
There has been a massive swing towards online booking via Airbnb et al and I believe that city properties have recently enjoyed a boost but I have seen a steady slide of interest.
They aren't interested in finding guests the best property for their needs - all they have to do is find them one property that they will book.Bree wrote: The big listing sites will have to change some bit as most people booking a family holiday are flexible with dates.
Holiday makers tend to know the country, the month of travel and the number of people travelling and having hundreds of properties available makes it confusing.
If the sites are going to penalise for not having calenders up to date then they need to allow guests to choose a whole month eg these calenders are up to date and have availability for a minimum of 7 nights in August and sleeps x+ guests.
By getting guests to specify exact dates, the listing sites present fewer properties to choose from. Guests find this less confusing and overwhelming.
Except that "overwhelming" is still the name of the game with a search on OD. Use their filter facility and select a particular location from their filter list and if (in OD's mind/algorithm) there is not sufficient properties to show you they will add plenty more from other locations, and these are way outside the filter.newtimber wrote:They aren't interested in finding guests the best property for their needs - all they have to do is find them one property that they will book.
By getting guests to specify exact dates, the listing sites present fewer properties to choose from. Guests find this less confusing and overwhelming.
There is an adage in retailing, which is give the customer too much choice and the customer will walk away from the counter without buying anything. Maybe that applies to listing sites also.
Interesting, thanks Sun Lover.
I’ve often thought, if I wasn’t the kind of person who can easily make a website, I’d just market with a Facebook page. It isn’t customisable in display terms - you’re stuck with their corporate look and no-nonsense layout - but the content is up to you, aside from the ads which they hang around it. I can see them introducing specific features to fit various markets. In our case booking calendar(s) combined with prices and some other criteria (sb rates as % of week, min stay, valid start days, optional extras, discounts such as small group, long stay, etc) so people can get an accurate price ‘on the page’.
I’m wondering what their percentage is going to be? It’s on the basis of a ‘free’ presence, but paying for exposure will be the only way to get any meaningful distribution, and being savvy will be the only way to get conversions. While few people are in there it could be quite affordable.
Generic platforms could be quite disruptive by bringing an ‘Aldi’ effect to the market. Or maybe they’ll want to fleece us like the rest.
I’ve often thought, if I wasn’t the kind of person who can easily make a website, I’d just market with a Facebook page. It isn’t customisable in display terms - you’re stuck with their corporate look and no-nonsense layout - but the content is up to you, aside from the ads which they hang around it. I can see them introducing specific features to fit various markets. In our case booking calendar(s) combined with prices and some other criteria (sb rates as % of week, min stay, valid start days, optional extras, discounts such as small group, long stay, etc) so people can get an accurate price ‘on the page’.
I’m wondering what their percentage is going to be? It’s on the basis of a ‘free’ presence, but paying for exposure will be the only way to get any meaningful distribution, and being savvy will be the only way to get conversions. While few people are in there it could be quite affordable.
Generic platforms could be quite disruptive by bringing an ‘Aldi’ effect to the market. Or maybe they’ll want to fleece us like the rest.