Night storage heaters

[Eugenie]

Does anyone have night storage heaters? if yes, how have you found the runnings costs?

In our holiday rental we have electric inertia radiators in the main living area. The problem is that although they are programmable (limited) they are on most of the day at the full EDF rate. Some guests will leave doors open during the day if there's a bit of sunshine and others sleep with the windows open with the heating full on.

In an attempt to reduce our very high electricity bills we are considering storage heaters so that guests get can't abuse the heating system.

Any feedback would be great.

[French Cricket]

We inherited two monsters - 7kw each. We've ditched one and have the other in our gite, but it's rarely used as we don't open in winter. I certainly wouldn't buy them here as they cost a fortune, are ugly as sin, and are (obviously) non responsive to weather changes - for example, we can have temperatures of 18 to 20 in the day time, even in December, when the heater is blasting out its best, then cold evenings when it's exhausted its heat!

If I were starting from scratch with electric heating I'd buy inertia rads with window/door open detectors. They're a bit more expensive but easy to find - all the big manufacturers offer them.

[teapot]

So True FC, they are a bygone product of last century.

Eugenie, your pool pump is probably on most of the day as well and that also uses a lot of electricity unnecessarily. 90+% savings can be made on the pool filtration costs

[Cassis]

If I were starting from scratch with electric heating I'd buy inertia rads with window/door open detectors. They're a bit more expensive but easy to find - all the big manufacturers offer them.

+1 to that. We get the same issue with our electric rads (people opening windows with the heating on) but it's not so much of an issue as we're on the spot, being B&B, and we can cut off the room heaters at the control panel if people are regularly doing this. If ever we had to replace them, then with the benefit of experience we would definitely get open window detectors, like FC says.

[JaneS]

I do not know what make of electricity board you have, mine are Legrand and I would suggest putting any night storage heaters on relays so when the cheap rate comes in, on they go and off when peak rate kicks in. I have them on the water heaters and they have paid for themselves. I am going to see if there is space on the gite board to enable relays for the storage heaters in the gite.

I understand completely what you say about guests abusing the heating system and the resulting stratospheric bill from EDF - they more than doubled my monthly payment this year and have only recently reduced it, but it is still more than the bill for the house.

I will be looking into into putting the storage heaters for the gite on relays this winter, as until they are on relays, I will not open in the colder months. Yes they can be overridden, but keep that to yourself even if you are lucky to have your box hidden from view.

If you combine relays with FC's suggestions re window and door opening detectors, you may have a winning combination for you.

[Cassis]

Unless you install them with "contacteurs jour-nuit / heures creuses" it would be crazy to put in night storage heaters. The only reason to install them is to take advantage of "heures creuses" (off peak) electricity rates.

That said, "radiateurs à accumulation de chaleur" (storage heaters) cost a fortune and take up a lot more space than an equivalent inertia or instant heater and the heat control is crude.

[Eugenie]

Thanks for your feedback French Cricket & Teapot.
We have inertia rads with window / door detectors but the detectors do have a time limit. We have state of the art water heaters, led lights wherever possible, solar heating for the pool and the pôol pump is only on for 3-4 hours a day in the winter.

There are slimmer(17cms) more modern models available now. It seems attractive to have the storage heaters on the "heures creuse" with a top up if necessary rather than the inertia on most of the time at the "heures plein".

[French Cricket]

I'll just put in another 2 centimes worth, this time as a guest / occupier of a property with storage heaters.

I hate them! The thermostats aren't sensitive, at all (not even the modern ones), so basically when I've had them, I just end up ... opening the window ... because there's no other way of bringing the room temperature down. I dislike overheated rooms and tend to set my heating at 18 or 19 degrees max; a room heated by storage heaters will vary enormously in temperature during the discharge period and for me will sometimes be too hot, and occasionally too cold. It all makes for a very unpleasant living environment - for me, at least.

Your call, of course, but for me it would be a big 'don't go there'. Why not do a proper energy audit - spend out on some monitors - and see exactly where your 4000€ is going?

BTW, Jane, storage heaters are only designed to work with heures creuses tarifs (though they can be topped up during the day) and come with their own contacteur built in.

[teapot]

Ok so the pool pump is only on for 3-4 hours in winter but you posted your bill at €4000 and I am guessing that's not just winter? If you saved €1000 annually on the pool that would surely make things better all round? Fitting LED lights is good but a tiny saving compared to a pool pump running.

The H/C-H/P isn't that much different these days is it? sounds good good but doesn't actually make that much difference as the H/P is higher than the normal tariff for flat rate. How the electricity is used is more important and guests if too warm through storage heaters will do just the same and open doors and windows so net effect is large ugly heaters, more capital outlay same effect on electricity I would think.

[holidayloverxx]

I don't know what the modern ones are like, but I had 2 in my flat and I managed to tip one over on top of myself and broke my leg! lt was getting on for 100kg and wasn't secured to the wall (quite usual in our flats I was told). Heaters now gone and replaced with a single slimline wall-mounted convector heater that costs about the same to run and has the benefit of being able to be switched on anytime you want.

[teapot]

Exactly Holidayloverxx,
There is no "technology" in storage heaters same as they ever were.

[Ben McNevis]

They are ugly but on everything else I have to disagree:

1. Modern storage heaters have a fan with very good thermal insulation so that heat output is only when you want it.

2. They have the option of a wall thermostat elsewhere in the room which is much better than one attached to the heater.

3. You can add modules to vary the input according to the outside temperature or weather forecast

4. They are dead simple and need no maintenance.

We inherited 2 storage heaters as the main heating in our little cottage (20 years ago) and have since replaced one with a modern one. The modern fanned storage heater is terrific as it can heat the room from a standing start in about 2 minutes. It is cheap to run as it is on the night tarriff (the switching is done at the meter, via a second consumer unit).

I wouldn't recommend the variety which have inbuilt panel heaters on the 24h supply as this adds complication and users may inadvertently get all the heating from the daytime supply.

On our bigger house, we put in one modern storage heater which provides background heating to the centre of the house. The fan is on a timeswitch which guests can't fiddle with and additional heating is by central heating. This storage heater is designed to protect the house in case of a central heating fault.

Having said all that, I'd never consider installing one where mains gas is available.

[teapot]

Yes forced air circulation is much better than radiation for quickly warming an area, some non storage rads have this to (at last)
2. is also available to non storage
3.?
4. ditto non storage.

In France there isn't much difference in night time cost now as you pay more in the daytime for electricity used. Been a while since I compared but it was close depending on how you used daytime electricity.

New Infra red panel heaters look good, I know of someone who has equipped their house so as it gets colder I will ask how these are performing

[Ben McNevis]

I don't know about France but in the UK, there's a choice of energy suppliers and if you choose carefully you can get a big difference between night and day electricity. Our big house is on a mix of electric and solid fuel heating, so getting the electricity at the best price was really important. We pay just over 5p/kWh at night and I think around 16p daytime. Yes, it makes the daytime price much higher but ALL of the electric heating is storage (dry storage and wet storage), so we get pretty good economy, particularly as the main part (the wet storage) is controlled according to occupancy and the weather forecast.

What I'm saying is that a storage heater can work well as part of the mix but only if it's the right mix. If you have electric panel heaters too, you are paying more for the daytime electricity so the advantage of storage is negated.