Yet another new law on tourism rentals......

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Sam V
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Post by Sam V »

I received this email from OD last week:

REGISTER YOUR PROPERTY TO COMPLY WITH NEW REGULATIONS
We wanted to make sure you were aware of a new law, Decree-Law Nr. 128/2014, which requires that all Portuguese holiday homes be registered through the Balcão Único Eletrónico directed to the President of the competent Municipal Council.

Registering your property will help reassure travellers and give your listing more credibility, which will in turn lead to better performance. It’s easy to do and is completely free.

We recommend you take a few minutes and register your property in order to comply with this new law. Click the link below to download the form. Once you’ve submitted the completed form, you will receive a registration number that must be displayed on your HomeAway listing.
Download the registration form
In order to be registered, your property must meet the following conditions:

Maximum capacity:
9 bedrooms and 30 guests
9 local accommodation by building

General requirements:
Article 12 of Decree-Law 128/2014

Safety:
Properties must comply with safety and fire regulations, pursuant to Decree-Law Nr. 220/2008 of 12 November, and to the constant technical regulation of Ordinance No. 1532/2008

Prior communication:
Submitting the registration form is mandatory and a necessary condition for the operation of a local accommodation.
The registration form must be submitted through the “Balcão Único Eletrónico,” which assigns each property its own registration number and automatically sends it to the Turismo de Portugal I. P.

Identification and publicity:
Advertisements for local accommodation must include the name or logo and registration number.

Identifying plate:
An identifying plate must be displayed on the outside of the property next to the main entrance.
The model and characteristics of the identifying card are set out in the appendix to Decree-Law Nr. 220/2008.

Complaints book:
Starting 15 September, local accommodation establishments must have a complaints book as laid out in Decree-Law Nr. 156/2005.

Note: HomeAway waives any responsibility with regards to the accuracy of the content of this page and strongly recommends seeking professional legal advice for more detailed information.
Warm regards,
Ownersdirect.co.uk
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teba18
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Post by teba18 »

As we've already complied with everything we're aware of I didn't even open the e-mails we got from OD & HA. Now I'm very sceptical they came from them in the first place and suspect it may be a scam!
The message doesn't refer to a new law at all but to the one enacted a few years ago when everyone had to do the AL registering. When I clicked on the link (madness, I know!) it went to an empty page and my e-mail randomly shut itself down and wouldn't re-open for ages. I checked my antivirus which said it had blocked an intrusion and I'm now running a full system scan! Fingers crossed .......
stork
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Re: Rant

Post by stork »

Codliveroil wrote:
Then we have been on line, done more hoops, and registered with Siba to submit the bulletins, easy enough, but here's the thing, the law states that we have to register all of the foreigners, including kids, so 6/8 at a time, yet just recently we had some friends from Canada (so we are 4 foreigners), over to stay and off we went on a road trip, Pousada only asked for one ID, NH hotels in Spain asked for only 1 ID, back to a BNB in Portugal asked for nothing then to Tomar, Hotel dos Templarios, only asked for 1 ID.

So, this begs the question how serious is this whole dang thing?

There are currently 11296 rental properties registered with HL in Portugal, not sure if this is the max but maybe more on HA or OD, how many of these are fully compliant with AL, Financas and Siba?

Anyone care to hazard a guess, 5, 10, 15%

There are so many rumors about the authorities clamping down and nailing miscreants that it surely must pay to comply, but seriously, have we not got better things to do, my experience in Portugal is that the authorities will take the easy route and scrutinize those that comply hoping to catch them out on a technicality to rake in some penalty revenue and ignore the rest, because the rest are too difficult to pin down and too costly to pursue in the courts, (which are in a mess).

Any comments?

End of rant.
Well, yes. On the SIBA, I have stayed at hotels in PT 3 times this year. The first 2 (Lisbon at Airport, Portimão) only got my Portuguese wife's ID, even if I was standing next to looking quite un-Portuguese. 3rd time (in Albufeira) I was alone, the guy took passport no. on paper but not my correct details. I doubt it was entered in any on-line system.

I'm ok to do the registration, but if it is only camones*) (foreigners) who do it I would feel sort of silly. I'll try to ask around.

On controls, I think it depends a lot where you are in PT.

In the Algarve, we are as close to Africa as to Lisbon, and my impression is that we do not have the most eager and ambitious of the civil servants. There may also be a slight reluctance to scare the resident camones away.

I have heard of controls for at least 5 years, but there are still plenty (the majority?) of unregistered lettings around.

Perhaps it is sort of a come-back in case the owners get demanding?

I find the difficult thing here is to work out which part of the legislation is meant seriously and which you can safely ignore. And it is different in the Algarve from the north - my wife also feels like a camone.

*) Camones: Foreigner, in particular English-speaking. From the reaction when they are told something is going to be complicated or take a long time or be expensive: "Come on!"
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pjmatos
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Post by pjmatos »

Sam V wrote:Identifying plate:
An identifying plate must be displayed on the outside of the property next to the main entrance.
The model and characteristics of the identifying card are set out in the appendix to Decree-Law Nr. 220/2008.
Please be aware that this is not true for Apartments, but only for "Estabelecimentos de hospedagem".
tavi
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Post by tavi »

teba18 wrote:As we've already complied with everything we're aware of I didn't even open the e-mails we got from OD & HA. Now I'm very sceptical they came from them in the first place and suspect it may be a scam!
The message doesn't refer to a new law at all but to the one enacted a few years ago when everyone had to do the AL registering. When I clicked on the link (madness, I know!) it went to an empty page and my e-mail randomly shut itself down and wouldn't re-open for ages. I checked my antivirus which said it had blocked an intrusion and I'm now running a full system scan! Fingers crossed .......
This is very worrying teba - I also got the email but didn't click on the link.
Last edited by tavi on Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
stork
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Post by stork »

Small update on the ID story: A local friend who has worked with tourism for 20 years or so suggested that as the hotels etc take pay per room (and not per guest), they only bother registering the lead guest.

This is not what the legislation says, but seems to be normal practice.

He told that back in the days he was renting out room, he had to fill out papers with all details and take them to the police to get them stamped - and then no-one ever looked at them anymore.
Last edited by stork on Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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pjmatos
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Post by pjmatos »

stork wrote:Small update on the ID story: A local friend who has worked with tourism for 20 years or so suggested that as the hotels etc take pay per room 8and not per guest), they only bother registering the lead guest.
Ahhhh, the Portuguese...

Until the day there is an occurrence and the guests not reported lead the hotel to a heavy fine, not talking about other potentially bad consequences.

If they bother registering one guest, it shouldn't be much difficult to register the others.
stork
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Post by stork »

tavi wrote:
teba18 wrote:As we've already complied with everything we're aware of I didn't even open the e-mails we got from OD & HA. Now I'm very sceptical they came from them in the first place and suspect it may be a scam!
The message doesn't refer to a new law at all but to the one enacted a few years ago when everyone had to do the AL registering. When I clicked on the link (madness, I know!) it went to an empty page and my e-mail randomly shut itself down and wouldn't re-open for ages. I checked my antivirus which said it had blocked an intrusion and I'm now running a full system scan! Fingers crossed .......
This is very worrying teba - I also got the email but didn't click on the link.
I am quite certain the one I got is ok - header of the mail looks ok, so does the link.
stork
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Post by stork »

pjmatos wrote:
stork wrote:Small update on the ID story: A local friend who has worked with tourism for 20 years or so suggested that as the hotels etc take pay per room 8and not per guest), they only bother registering the lead guest.
Ahhhh, the Portuguese...

Until the day there is an occurrence and the guests not reported lead the hotel to a heavy fine, not talking about other potentially bad consequences.

If they bother registering one guest, it shouldn't be much difficult to register the others.
Perhaps not, but it seems that in reality (as opposed to the imagination in the administrative quarters in Lisbon) the odds of that happening are quite remote. If fines were dished out with any regularity, compliance would be much better than what our sampling above suggests.

What also reduces compliance (I think) is the insistence of registering everyone, not just over-16s.

BTW, which other consequences? AFAIR the law only mentions fines.
Sam V
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Post by Sam V »

I opened the link and it's a pdf aplication form 'Alojamento Local - Registo'. It's all in Portuguese, I don't speak/read Portuguese.

'Once you’ve submitted the completed form, you will receive a registration number that must be displayed on your HomeAway listing.'

Have you? (I haven't)
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teba18
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Post by teba18 »

I think link was fine and my computer was just having a bad day!
We did this AL registration years ago - as we understand it, the new laws are about something completely different but we have recently had a notification from our property manager that we should now put our AL number on our HA and OD adverts. Haven't yet but will do it to ensure we comply - no reason to refuse when we have the number already.
RichardHenshall
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Post by RichardHenshall »

We also got our AL licence some years ago but have had to register our business activity under CAE 55201 with the Portuguese taxman. Evidence of this início de atividade had to be given to our Câmara, who in turn shared it with the Balcão do Empreendedor, who after some weeks communicated our new AL licence number issued by Turismo de Portugal.

The licence is then published online here so anyone can check.
stork
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Post by stork »

Where in your ads do you (plan to) put the AL number?
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Post by RichardHenshall »

Unfortunately I'm not sure that the average guest would have any idea what it represents, so I think it's unimportant to them or to me where it is for the time being.

I confess that I haven't tried to establish what the rules say on the subject.
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pjmatos
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Post by pjmatos »

stork wrote:
pjmatos wrote:
stork wrote:Small update on the ID story: A local friend who has worked with tourism for 20 years or so suggested that as the hotels etc take pay per room 8and not per guest), they only bother registering the lead guest.
Ahhhh, the Portuguese...

Until the day there is an occurrence and the guests not reported lead the hotel to a heavy fine, not talking about other potentially bad consequences.

If they bother registering one guest, it shouldn't be much difficult to register the others.
Perhaps not, but it seems that in reality (as opposed to the imagination in the administrative quarters in Lisbon) the odds of that happening are quite remote. If fines were dished out with any regularity, compliance would be much better than what our sampling above suggests.

What also reduces compliance (I think) is the insistence of registering everyone, not just over-16s.

BTW, which other consequences? AFAIR the law only mentions fines.
One of the reasons why SEF asks property owners to report every single person is because of the country's internal security.
Should I say anything more? ;)
Last edited by pjmatos on Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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