Yet another new law on tourism rentals......

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pjmatos
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Post by pjmatos »

RichardHenshall wrote:Unfortunately I'm not sure that the average guest would have any idea what it represents, so I think it's unimportant to them or to me where it is for the time being.

I confess that I haven't tried to establish what the rules say on the subject.
Not much I'm afraid.
So if you have at least the two letters AL (Alojamento Local) and the registration number anywhere, you should be in compliance with the law.

Of course that if you write something such as "apartment registered under the Portuguese Law of Local Lodging with the number AL xxxx, fully compliant with the cleaning and security measures", I guess the clients will take note. ;)
stork wrote:Where in your ads do you (plan to) put the AL number?
HolidayLettings and Only-Apartments already have a proper form field where you can enter this number.

But as I said to Richard, I think using this number in the description text can make your advert stand out from the crowd.

Finally, Booking and BudgetPlaces are the only sites I know so far that refuse to put it anywhere inside their adverts of our properties.
Last edited by pjmatos on Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
stork
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Post by stork »

pjmatos wrote:
stork wrote:
pjmatos wrote: Ahhhh, the Portuguese...

Until the day there is an occurrence and the guests not reported lead the hotel to a heavy fine, not talking about other potentially bad consequences.

If they bother registering one guest, it shouldn't be much difficult to register the others.
Perhaps not, but it seems that in reality (as opposed to the imagination in the administrative quarters in Lisbon) the odds of that happening are quite remote. If fines were dished out with any regularity, compliance would be much better than what our sampling above suggests.

What also reduces compliance (I think) is the insistence of registering everyone, not just over-16s.

BTW, which other consequences? AFAIR the law only mentions fines.
One of the reasons why SEF asks property owners to report every single person is because of the country's internal security.
Should I say anything more? ;)
Well, please do! Is it the terrorists we are getting at, in particular the 3-year-olds?

What happens when requirements do not make sense to the people implementing them (us), is that they are ignored. In Spain they do not require ID of the kids.

I lived in the UK in the 90es (remember IRA?) and did not need to show ID, even as foreigner (perhaps the law said I should, but I didn't).

And how come the internal security had been ok until last November without ALs doing this? [/rant]
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pjmatos
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Post by pjmatos »

Hey, I'm not saying whether I agree or not with the law, but rather raising awareness about the consequences owners may face simply because they refuse to register a few more guests.

A lot more things can happen, as we simply cannot know what guests have done or are going to do.
If they robber, kidnap or whatever, I guess owners can be liable for not collaborating with the authorities.

By the way, it would be so much easier for me if I didn't have to ask about complete name, date and place of birth, place of residence and identification document type, name and issuing country of each of the guests...
Last edited by pjmatos on Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
stork
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Post by stork »

OK, fair enough :-) I just do get wound up by rules and regulations that are badly thought out. This could be material for a long rant over a few beers...
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pjmatos
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Post by pjmatos »

Deal! :lol:
Cheers!
teba18
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Post by teba18 »

Pjmatos, can you poss describe where you're meant to put the AL number on HA? I put it with notes on accommodation as I couldn't find anywhere else. Thanks!
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pjmatos
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Post by pjmatos »

Sorry, teba18. :?

I thought I had read elsewhere that they were to provide a place to put the number, but I must have made a wrong assumption with this message that HomeAway sent:
"you will receive a registration number that must be displayed on your HomeAway listing".
I will edit right away the post where I gave the wrong information.

Yes, the notes field sounds like a perfect place to put it.
In my case, I put it on the first sentence of the description:
"Enjoy the amazing view of the river Tagus and the National Pantheon while staying comfortably in this modern and cosy apartment, registered as Local Lodging in Turismo de Portugal under the no. 2237/AL."
Entirelyidentifiable
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Post by Entirelyidentifiable »

So what's the latest verdict on whether villas need an AL sign on the gatepost?
I was out in the Algarve last week and did see a couple of these but way, way fewer than would be the case if all rental villas had them (I saw about two and must have walked and driven past tens of rental villas in four different developments!)

My lawyers have been organising the AL (too slowly!!) and have not mentioned this sign, only the complaints book and the many certificates.

Do we know how long the license takes to come through and if it is okay in theory to have rental guests as long as it is applied for (the impression I have got from the lawyer but not from the posts here).

Also, how much would you expect to pay for the whole process, starting from scratch?
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pjmatos
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Post by pjmatos »

The AL sign is only mandatory when you rent rooms (estabelecimentos de hospedagem) and not the whole place.

Which certificates are your lawyers talking about?
Why is it taking so long?

Opening an AL in Portugal is so easy nowadays, as you only need a few things (like fire extinguisher, complaints book, etc) and to simply communicate details to the town hall.
My license number came in the same day.

I haven't paid anything, besides the mandatory items (fire extinguisher, complaints book, etc.), which cost me between 100 and 200 euros.
Entirelyidentifiable
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Post by Entirelyidentifiable »

Hmmmm I'm worrying I've paid WAY over the odds for all sorts of certificates then.

We had the energy certification, electrical and not sure what else. I will check but I will be very annoyed if we have paid for things unnecessarily.
We also had pool signage with the depth, fire extinguishers and fire exit signs but I think they are needed.

It is all sorted now although I need the official number still but I have the pending one.
teba18
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Post by teba18 »

We have the AL licence but no sign. We were also told ages ago that we needed fire exit signs and hard wired fire & smoke alarms. Then that seemed to fade away and we never had to do it. (We do have smoke alarms and fire extinguishers etc)
I think the 'simplified regime' simplified things quite a lot - except perhaps getting set up on the simplified regime in the first place!
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pjmatos
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Post by pjmatos »

Entirelyidentifiable wrote:We had the energy certification, electrical and not sure what else. I will check but I will be very annoyed if we have paid for things unnecessarily.
Electrical and gas certification are not needed anymore, since the new law that took place on November last year.
Energy certification I am almost sure that is also not needed as it is only mandatory when you sell or rent (with a traditional renting contract) a place.
tavi
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Post by tavi »

EI you only needed the Energy Cert (and electrical/gas) to buy the property and that would have been the seller's responsibility to provide, along with habitation certificate etc.

The lawyer acting for you in the purchase has to check these before allowing you proceed...is it the same lawyer - is that where the confusion lies?

You certainly don't need to acquire it all over again to register for AL - as pjm says, there are no certificates required for AL registration, and there is no charge to register though of course your lawyer will charge you for her/his time if she/he does it for you.

You do NOT need to affix any AL sign (this is only for hostels, hotels, b&b's).
Entirelyidentifiable
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Post by Entirelyidentifiable »

Point taken re the AL sign. We have not got that.
To clarify, the license has now been applied for. It probably has been granted but the lawyer is on holiday.

Hmmm well the lawyer did not obtain the energy certificate on purchase and it is the same lawyer. I have been quoted the fee for this so I think that given they did not obtain this from the vendor there is an argument I should not have to pay for all of it!

The house manager started the process and obtained the gas certificate and I guess it is just her not being up-to-date with the changes. Very unfortunate but lawyers should know what is and isn't needed.

This will have cost me a LOT unnecessarily. Any suggestions for what I can do???
aasta
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Post by aasta »

Just had time to read this thread...we were told last November that because we have been in business for over 4 years that we do not need to hang the AL sign...did not make sense and the camara was to get back to me and has not...

so after the ferias of August will again look into the rules...it seems there are rules for new places and places with long standing registation....or have I misunderstood???

We also had to have all the tests including water (we have our own well water) and have fire extinguishers, pool depth shown etc when we opened 4.5 years ago

and although a hassle to register every guests identity info, we agree with pjmatos that better safe than sorry ....of course they could be carrying false Id....
aasta
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