A22, Toll road April 2011

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CSE
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Post by CSE »

Yep you got it in one. This system has been working in the North of Portugal for around 1.5/2 years now. But only once installed on the A22 (one of the last roads to be electronically tolled) did any of the Portuguese sit up and "take notice".
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Moliere
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Post by Moliere »

Bloody hell, one of the politicians described it as "third world" - I reckon he was being polite.

For interest, can you just drive straight through and take your chances?

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Post by CSE »

Yes rumour has it that you can. I have seen only threats that the Police are to mount extra patrols to stop the cheats. Nothing has ever appeared in any newspaper (ether Spanish or Portuguese) to say how many have been fined for non payment.

This is how the how thing has evolved since Sept 2010
http://slowtalk.com/groupee/forums/a/tp ... 9006232001
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e-richard
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Post by e-richard »

Hang on a moment. If you do not have a transponder in the vehicle, there are lots of places that you can post-pay. i.e. after you have travelled on the motorway. All Post Offices, and a number of "payPoints" have been set up to accept payments. OK, you may have to queue at any of these paypoints, but the fun bit is that you can only pay 2 days after you have travelled, and up to 5 days after.

Not very helpful if you are renting a car and returning it via the motorway to the airport on your way home.

So, yes, it is still, nonetheless a dogs breakfast, and I suspect the number of journeys that have gone unpaid must run into the thousands if not tens of thousands and the "holiday season" has not started yet. ho ho ho
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Post by CSE »

I think the point is foreigners are not pointed to anywhere else other than the machine set up right beside the Autovia conveniently located in the service station. You do not have to travel some km and hunt down a Post office, which might just be closed when you do eventually find it. The cameras do not recognise non-Portuguese plates so paying later may not work for non-Portuguese cars. If and when the Police do a campaign and stop to check why you had not paid the toll foreigners would have to pay the fine immediately, plus the outstanding toll.
There are stories around the internet stating that if you do attempt to pay your toll before using the roads with your hire car you end up having to pay for all the outstanding tolls on that car. Obviously the amounts outstanding do vary.


BTW Mols Good news; horses are exempt from the tolls.
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Post by e-richard »

casasantoestevo wrote:There are stories around the internet stating that if you do attempt to pay your toll before using the roads with your hire car you end up having to pay for all the outstanding tolls on that car. Obviously the amounts outstanding do vary..
Yup, that's true.

It happened to me when I went into a Post Office to pay for one journey (circa €2.80), they asked me for €18.70. When I told them it was a rental car that I only picked up 2 days ago, the lovely lady in the Post Office rolled her eyes, and charged me €3.16 exactly (includes a "service charge"). Apparently it has happened a lot, and this was only February !
Of course it will happen again to the next person renting my car after I dropped it at the airport !

The system for rental cars is fundamentally flawed and yes, the information for tourists with foreign registered cars is negligible and equally flawed.
** Richard
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Post by RichardHenshall »

It's a complicated system (or collection of systems) and how you pay depends on the nationality of the car, the residence of the driver, frequency of use etc etc.

What, of course, the regional press are not communicating are the best methods of payment for each class of motorist. They are determined to try to make the system look stupid and to try to make it fail and to use both as the excuse for the decline in the tourist trade. In many respects it is a sophisticated system as it is based on a combination of number plate recognition and/or electronic transponder devices so there are no toll booths and no need to stop on the motorway or its slip roads. In other respects it is rather clumsy and it is these latter cases that get all the press.

On the good side for instance, a driver of a non-Portuguese car can pre-pay online before ever leaving home (so doesn't need to stand in the rain, even if it is a novelty this winter). A Portuguese owner of a Portuguese car can arrange, using an electronic device, to have his tolls paid automatically by direct debit.

Unfortunately there are certain classes who are not well served by the toll system - most notably those who rent Portuguese cars. Because the hire companies do not want to provide customer service and won't invest €25 per car, the departing tourist/renter is left possibly trying to pay for a toll (at a Portuguese post office) two days after he has left the country!
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Post by CSE »

Richard H well done for trying to defend the indefensible.
Other countries have tolls or charges…like the London Congestion charge or the vignette system (like that of Switzerland). They all work and you do not have to queue up and get a load of bad press.
Sometimes a government gets it wrong; it may take years for them to acknowledge this, but in this case the damage will be done.
Here is a thought; maybe Portugal is like BMC produced what basically are good cars but the faults and poorly developed product meant the bad press engulfed them.

What I find astounding is that this latest lot of press is coming from a sector of the tourist industry itself.

Moving on to your point about purchasing on-line rases several issues more.A driver of a hire car cannot pre purchase tickets on line until they pick up the car, as the cars registration is needed. To purchase the tickets on-line form the Portuguese Post Office website you need to read Portuguese as the English section still does not work. And there is little to encourage the local neighbours of Portugal to use the website as nothing is in Spanish.
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Post by RichardHenshall »

casasantoestevo wrote:... What I find astounding is that this latest lot of press is coming from a sector of the tourist industry itself. ...
And the politicians too!

http://algarvedailynews.com/news/6221-d ... overnmentq
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Post by tavi »

http://www.viaverde.pt/Website/Section. ... cale=en-GB

Via Verde - fairly informative in Pt, English and Spanish. But even the Via Verde Visitors system is not tourist-friendly. You have to rent the transponder and there are only 4 places in the entire Algarve to get one - (only one place actually on a motorway). I haven't yet worked out how you return the transponder if you need it to use the motorway to leave the country.

Richard, how can you prepay your toll online for a foreign reg car? I haven't seen this, and if it's possible it could be very useful.
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Post by RichardHenshall »

There are various options available if you start at http://www.ctt.pt/fectt/wcmservlet/ctt/ ... ens/index/ and work through the Serviços Disponíveis option to Matrículas Estrangeiras.

Some of these options are available to buy online from the CTT website.

You will have to register here.

Use Google Chrome to get a reasonably understandable translation.
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Post by CSE »

Tavi; if the internet is to be believed there seems to be a shortage of transponders.

RichardH; the web page not being in English and in Spanish is another illustration of why this whole affair is not defensible. Interesting that you have picked up on one small part of my posting. However your reply just illustrates more bad press. I find it surprising that the opposition party has found the audacity to criticised this toll system. Were they not in power when the system was originally introduced, in the north, a few years ago?


Another example of the tourist industry shooting itself in the foot is the fact that a lot of the rental car companies do not have transponders installed in their fleets.
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tavi
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Post by tavi »

Thanks Richard, that's interesting and maybe useful for the many tourists who drive down in GB cars. I notice the two options are for 5 "working" days or 3 days. Maybe you can choose the two together thereby making a week.

Casa, don't know if there's a shortage - I was in the Post Office the other day, trying to buy a transponder for myself. The lady had one in her hand ready to give to me :D.


However, in true Algarve fashion, something went wrong.
PO lady : we need the FULL postcode for the address on your driving licence. i.e. the first four numbers are not enough.
Me: we're in the Post Office can't YOU find the final three numbers, since you invented them :D
Lady: OK then.

A queue formed behind me as we tried and failed to find the full Postcode. So I went away empty handed... and found the code on the Post Office website. sigh.
:lol: :lol:
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Post by CSE »

Tavi, so are you saying to obtain a transponder you need a Portuguese postal code? If so that means non-Portuguese cannot hire one.
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Post by tavi »

Casa, I was trying to buy the permanent one: which is linked to your own Portuguese car registration number. And debited from your own Portuguese bank account. i.e: relatively easy for Portuguese residents.

It's the payment options for the visitors in Foreign reg cars, or hire cars that is shamefully clumsy, complicated and user-UNfriendly! As we've seen here. Sadly.
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