A22, Toll road April 2011

[RichardHenshall]

I intend to investigate further when in Portugal in early April. Getting the device might be that easy but paying the charges might still be problematic. If pre-paid does the credit lapse like on an unused PAYG mobile phone? Can a temporary device be linked to a direct debit? Still too many questions!

[Rogthedodge]

Excellent, we are not out until June. But I have guests out between the start date. look forward to your comments.

[CSE]

This is becoming a saga

Just had a thought, pin back ears

Could we buy a transponder thingy, keep it loaded and post it to guests that are going to hire a car

As I understand it the transponder has to be registered to a vehicle. So I doubt it.

From what I've read you pay €27 as a deposit. When you return the device rental charges are deducted from the deposit (€6 for 1st week and €1,50 for subsequent weeks, both + IVA). If you don't return it then you've paid €27, unless I'm missing something. This would seem to be virtually the same as buying one officially, without all the red tape.

No the device alone is 27€ you then have to pay tolls on top. The Transponder has a limited life so you may end up paying for one every trip.

http://www.algarveresident.com/story.asp?XID=40649

No matter how you want to work this out by day-well- or km it is very expensive.

[RichardHenshall]

... As I understand it the transponder has to be registered to a vehicle. ...

... With the exception of Temporary Devices (DT) each device is registered to a particular vehicle registration number. ...

... DTs are not registered to a particular vehicle and are designed for short term use on the Portuguese toll motorways, which makes them ideal for foreign registered vehicles. ...

That's what gave me the idea of "buying" a device (by not returning a hired one).

... No the device alone is 27€ you then have to pay tolls on top. The Transponder has a limited life so you may end up paying for one every trip. ...

I assume you mean that the rental is on top, though my reading of the system suggests that the rental comes out of the deposit and is therefore capped at that level. I think we all realise that the tolls are extra no matter how they're paid.

... TEMPORARY DEVICES (DT) FOR FOREIGN VEHICLES

These can be leased from motorway service stations or CTT/post offices. The price for the leasing is €27 and for the first week €6 + IVA and an extra €1.50+IVA for the following weeks is deducted from the price of purchase, the remaining amount is returned to you when you return the device.

When you first lease this device, you need to charge it with a minimum of €10 (light vehicles) or €20 (heavy vehicles). This credit is to be used on tolls and is non-reimbursable.

The DT is also available for Portuguese vehicles but the procedure is slightly different. For a Portuguese vehicle, the temporary device will last for 90 days, but the driver keeps the device and even after the initial 90 days are expired, when they top it up it reactivates the device.

DTs are not registered to a particular vehicle and are designed for short term use on the Portuguese toll motorways, which makes them ideal for foreign registered vehicles. ...

Like many posters on similar threads elsewhere, we all seem to have slightly different requirements and concerns. I am only concerned with my own (and my guests') rental of PT registered hire cars and how we can pay the tolls, particularly on or after departure. The option to "buy" a temporary device is not viable for one time guests, only for regulars like me.

I can see that as you are based in Spain your concerns may be different through wishing to use your own Spanish vehicle in PT, but if you are concerned with guests arriving/departing through Porto, for example, and hiring cars there then we maybe have the same problem.

[CSE]

I am not particularly concerned about guests who come from Oporto, as we never know where they are driving from. There is a lot of information in “our” press as the North of Portugal has had these tolls for many months. It was my intention is to re-publishing the information, that has appeared in the Galician press, in English.

I, like others, would be grateful if you could came back to give us regular updates on your experience with your plans.

[e-richard]

Just seen this comment from one of the bigger car rental brokers in The Algarve:

At the moment, the car rental companies have not been informed about how this system will work. In fact there are doubts about whether the new charges will even be introduced.

Why am I not surprised

[Tom Hart]

Hello Richard, I can't believe that either. There are new gantries being erected on the A25 and the A23. So the chances of the Algarve road not being charged for are virtually non-existent.
I cannot understand why the hire-car companies are being so stupid about this! It's not as though it's all new to them, it has been running now for 5 months!

[e-richard]

Tom, I suspect its called "wishful thinking".

One of the car rental firms I spoke to did highlight the cash flow issue. He has to buy 300 transponders now, but his (rental) income only arrives when the punters arrive. I did suggest he only buys a few at a time, but the logic apparently evaded him

[RichardHenshall]

I emailed estradas.pt during the week with various questions and got a reply (same day!) as follows (my highlighting):

• Dear Sir
  
  We recommend that you wait for the publication of the Ordinance for the new electronic tolls to come into force on 15th April.
  
  Preload
  For stays whose period of stay in Portugal does not justify the use of an electronic-device, the driver of the vehicle registered abroad may opt for one of the following methods of payment, using only the vehicle registration:
  • Preload valid for five working days;
  • Preload valid only for round-trip journey to the Porto Airport (via the A28 or A41 road).
  Adherence to these arrangements can be made via the Internet (www.ctt.pt) showing the vehicle registration and for this purpose using a credit card, in which the amounts are debited: a pre-loading of at least 10 € (cars) and € 20 (trucks) or the equivalent of the specific route selected, and their administrative costs.
  Adherence to these procedures is now available at Porto Airport, including in the “CTT” - Post Office from 8:30 am to 21h, or at the information counter of ANA from 05h to 23h, and in these cases the payment of money. Progressively, this solution will also be available in service stations on motorways.
  
  Foreign-registered vehicles
  The lanes in which tolls are electronic only are marked with a reference "electronic toll only".
  Foreign-registered vehicles are required to have an electronic device in order to circulate in these lanes.
  
  Short stays
  A temporary device should be leased either in the service stations or post offices. The price for leasing is proportional to the time of use. A deposit shall also be paid (an amount equal to the selling price of the device) which will be refunded upon return of the device.
  When leasing the device, you can choose between two methods of payment:
  
  • automatic payment: debit in credit card from travels made;
    prepayment: preloading a minimum of 10 Euros (light vehicles) or of 20 Euros (heavy vehicles). In this case, the preloaded and unused balance is non-refundable.
  
  Long stays (or regular users of these highways)
  A Via Verde device (or from other collection entity) shall be purchased in Via Verde stores or post offices.
  When purchasing the device, you can choose between two methods of payment:
  
  • automatic payment: account debit of the trips made;
    prepayment: preloading in cash/by ATM/homebanking of a value that you are spending as you travel.
  
  Failure to pay the toll taxes while using an electronic device will result in an infringement. The fine payable will be the value equal to 10 times the toll tax, the minimum value being 25 Euros.
  
  More questions about DT you can send an mail to: portagens@ctt.pt
  
  CTT – Post Office is the place where you can buy a DT.
  
  Best regards
  
  A Equipa do Gestor do Utente
  

They didn't really attempt to answer my specific questions (relating to temporary devices and Portuguese hire cars) but it seems to suggest that other payment options may evolve for Faro Airport and the A22, if Porto Airport is any guide.

It also contains conflicting or ambiguous information about foreign registered cars (you can pre-pay at CTT (or ANA) but must still have an electronic device for the "electronic tolls only").

Still, there are several weeks to go.

[Tom Hart]

Richardhenshall wrote

"They didn't really attempt to answer my specific questions (relating to temporary devices and Portuguese hire cars) but it seems to suggest that other payment options may evolve for Faro Airport and the A22, if Porto Airport is any guide."

I would be most interested to know what payment options have evolved at Porto Airport.

[RichardHenshall]

... I would be most interested to know what payment options have evolved at Porto Airport.

I was referring to the ability to pre-pay at CTT or the airport's information desk from 05:00 to 23:00 (in addition to pre-payment online, see below), including the option to pre-pay for a round trip specifically to/from the airport. I would imagine that those opening hours would cover most arrivals and departures.

However, on re-reading the information, these pre-payment options may only be for a foreign vehicle and why someone arriving into Porto Airport would need to pre-pay tolls for a foreign vehicle escapes me for the moment.

If you register at ctt.pt (available in English) and then go to pagamento portagens (unfortunately in Portuguese only) and browse through the submenus you will find some information.

Drivers of foreign registered cars can pre-pay online with a credit card for a 5-day period and even get a refund of unused money (though presumably less some fees).

Still doesn't help me with a Portuguese registered hire car.

[Tom Hart]

Thanks for that Richard, as you say not much use for a hire car.
You will note from the information on the CTT site that you cannot pay for 48 hours after passing a toll point, (in a Portuguese car).
Not much use if you are on your way to a couple of weeks in the U.K.
A friend of mine went to pay for using her U.K. registered car at the post office in Tondela. They do not accept payments there, it has to be done in Viseu (very inconvenient). In Viseu she was told she could not pay because the system ONLY recognises PT plated cars.
More from my friend with hire car contacts, they have no intention of doing anything, and apparently are not being chased for payments ........yet.

[Tom Hart]

I've just seen the following on another forum, unfortunately it clearly shows exactly what the hire car companies are (NOT) doing. It was posted today.

I've just been caught out by this. I came on holiday to Portugal last October and hired a car at Porto airport to drive south. Today I received a letter from the hire company informing me of a 'toll gate trangression' for which they charged 30 euros to my credit card. At first I thought this must be a mistake regarding the toll I paid on the A1 from Coimbra and protested my innocence. Now having googled and discovered this forum and others, I guess I must be a victim of the SCUT tolls around Porto. As a foreign tourist I had no way of knowing about this (I cannot read signs in Portugese) and was not informed of anything by the car hire company. Sadly I presume that ignorance is no defence! I was actually back in Portugal last month, doing the same trip using a different car hire company, so I guess I may receive yet another charge of 30 euros in due course (why has it taken so long?). Does anyone know how much the actual tolls would be driving to & from the A1 along the signed route to & from Porto airport (i.e have I been charged a fine as well)? Anyway, I will make sure to check the situation with the hire company next time...and follow the suggested non-toll route. Thanks everyone for the information.


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[CSE]

Late October the tolls were introduced in Northern Portugal. We have not had any guests who have arrived, with a Portuguese hire car since that time. I have always wanted to know what the Portuguese car hire companies are doing about these tolls.
This week we have guests who flew into Oporto picked up a hire car from Hertz.

They did not receive any information about the new tolls and no electronic devise installed either.


Latest news in my local Spanish news paper is that due to the political crisis in Portugal the Portuguese government has not responded to questions raised by some Spanish via the EU.
It is also rumoured that maybe more legal work needs to be done to finalise the tolls in the south. However again because of the crisis they may not be able to do this. we have to wait and see.
There is another report say Spanish drivers are not being fined.

[Rogthedodge]

Afternoon all,

Just had this reply to an e-mail sent to Economycarhire.

"Dear Roger,
Thank you for your email.
We have been advised that the toll roads that were due to be set in place by April have since been postponed to later this year, as a result of current Government instability."

Like to see it elsewhere to confirm\//

Regards

Rog