Over Occupied - But Can I Prove It?

[Fifi]

But on a package holiday, presumably they flew to their destination, and afaik airlines do not allow small children to bunk up in the overhead lockers.

If the property was left in a reasonably good condition, and in the summer heating costs really aren't a big issue, don't let it get to you. Life is too short, and after the event, do you really have a great deal of comeback? And is it worth a bad review somwhere or other?

It is annoying - I live on site, and I am well aware of the odd extra overnight guest, but they are on holiday, and if they bump in to a friend and invite them over, and if no great harm down, I just go with it - they normally ask, and it would be churlish to say no.

Did get into a slight punch-up with people who thought it would be OK for their friends to park their campervan in the garden for nowt even though I informed them I wasn't licensed, not insured, not a flippin campsite it was still a problem for them. They didn't book in the end!

If they'd trashed the place, my feeling would be different!

[Annew]

I'm with Fifi - if the odd extra guests are not incurring huge extra costs, is it worth losing sleep over?

We've had this happen a few times this year - the odd extra couple sneaking in, particularly with weekend bookings, but we haven't worried too much about it. The only problem that we could have, potentially, is that our insurers insist we have the name of each guest recorded on a booking form, to comply with insurance requirements from the underwriters for our indoor swimming pool.

I had an enquiry for the smaller of my cottages this year (sleeps 8) When the booking form it arrived it was for 18 people - apparently they thought it was OK to put tents up in the garden - I declined the booking much to their disgust!

[barbersdrove]

I have had an e-mail this morning regarding our Xmas week booking which was to a couple. She has written to say tha
there's been a change of circumstance and her parner's 13 yr old daughter is now living with them and will now have to come with them. She was worried this will put me about and promised they will bring their own bedding etc for her use. How different! It does restore your faith that most guests are lovely lovely people and don't abuse the system.

[Jimbo]

It is annoying - I live on site, and I am well aware of the odd extra overnight guest, but they are on holiday, and if they bump in to a friend and invite them over, and if no great harm down, I just go with it - they normally ask, and it would be churlish to say no.

This is our experience too, although I do get a bit miffed if the guests don't have the courtesy to ask first or introduce the 'visitors'. However, Mrs Jimbo's wiser counsel usually prevails and I'm sent off with the strimmer to work off my annoyance before any harm is done.

Jim

[greenbarn]

Marks, I'd be a tad miffed but whether I'd think it was worth the hassle of charging is another matter, particularly with no solid proof.

I might be tempted to add a line to our normal follow up email along the lines of "We noticed that you had additional guests staying, and we hope they enjoyed themselves as well. On this occasion we've decided to waive the additional charge that would normally apply, and are thankful that there were no incidents which would've involved issues with our insurers and the authorities about exceeding our occupancy limit."

Something like that - ie, you've been rumbled - don't do it again!

[kendalcottages]

Out of interest, how would you stand with insurers if, say, there was a fire and the property was occupied by far more people than you had told your insurers it was being let to?

[kg1]

Greenbarn - that's really good. I've had this problem & I will use that if you don't mind. The last time it happened they also left muddy shoe prints on the sofa & chair (sent them pictures), so I wasn't feeling charitable towards them & made a deduction from the security deposit -never heard another word.

[brenda]

Well I must be a misery guts as I am obviously in the minority here.

However, I cannot see the point of asking occupancy numbers at the time of booking unless you are going to insist this is stuck to during your clients holiday.

My prices reflect the maximum occupancy I can make a reasonal return on and I would have NO hesitation in charging extra should people be found to exceed this limit.

Friends of friends of ours were asked to leave a London hotel when they were found to have smuggled an extra person in so hotels will not tolerate it and nor would I. However, should the clients have the courtesy to ask I would probably say OK to one extra guest. More than that - no way.

I apologise if this offends people.

[Marks]

Well, I'm not wound up and I haven't lost any sleep over it

The thing that gets my goat (apologies to the various goats on this forum) is that my contract pretty much sets out what I will supply and what I will do and how I will do it and it also sets out how many people will stay in MY apartment. I kept my side of the contract but these guests thought it was OK not to keep theirs. What is the point of a contract/T&Cs if neither side keeps to it? If for instance I did not supply air-con or a shower or 4 sun loungers for example, then guests would rightly have a reason to complain. I feel I have the right to complain that they decided to over occupy without asking me first.

Greenbarn - Thanks, I may well use that approach, once they've told me what they've done with the garage keys They have 7 days to reply after which I will charge 30 Euros for replacements and then hit them with the over occupancy email.

[pepsipuss]

I think that is an excellent approach, GB, and will be adopting it in future!

[Giddy Goat]

The thing that gets my goat (apologies to the various goats on this forum)

That's OK Mark!

is that my contract pretty much sets out what I will supply and what I will do and how I will do it and it also sets out how many people will stay in MY apartment.

Had this convo with OH this morning over a brekkie of newly mown lawn. We agreed that if you currently call your security deposit a damage deposit, it's perhaps more comprehensive to change it to the former. e-Richard put me onto that.

Then, in the Ts and Cs, it's also important to state what happens if there is proven over-occupancy. We haven't as yet done this on ours but will ....

[CSE]

All of this talk about extra costs. Has anyone not experienced guests that leave lights on; TV on standby etc, whilst others always switch lights off unplug the T.V. etc. So you could get over occupation of the latter and it will cost you less then say two persons of the former. How can you calculated extra power costs?
Children should be free of coasts they don’t take up much of anything in the first place.


Marks:
If you are that worried then write to them stating what you understood to have occurred, then maybe they will never book with you again.

[Giddy Goat]

Children should be free of costs they don’t take up much of anything in the first place.

A couple of extreme examples of the costs an owner might have to bear at the hands of children!

The landscaping of the garden is because one guest's 'little darlings' decided to stuff the loo full of loo paper and other bits and pieces - despite the parents being warned about this on arrival and having notices prominently displayed (we have a septic tank). As a consequence we had to have a local farmer (with bob cat) come and dig up the garden to expose the pipework which had to be dismantled and unblocked by plumber....

....The redecoration was because one family left their children to take a bath unattended - they overfilled the bath and then, it seems, decided to try to make a 'wave machine'. Bath overflowed and water went through the ceiling into the kitchen below. Oh and they seem to have used the shower attachment as a gun and soaked the wall opposite the bath...so the nice, newly decorated wall turned black!

In short, possible extra wear and tear .... ?

[Marks]

If you are that worried then write to them stating what you understood to have occurred, then maybe they will never book with you again.

TBH I don't think I want them to book with me again. If they think its OK to over occupy what's to stop them doing it again?

[Hells Bells]

But that is not the fault of the child, but the lack of supervision by the parents. I've had very little damage so far at my apartment (touching wood as I type), and the worst was casued by a single guy so definitely not over-occupied
If it was me, I'd not even mention it, and refuse any further bookings from them.