As a few people think it's a good idea, this is the torch I found on the internet - just right for fixing to a wall and if it does what it says on the tin, it will be great.
(I have to admit I haven't ordered one yet...I'm one of those "why do it now when you can put it off til you're panicking" type of people sometimes...)... no I'm going to order RIGHT NOW!!!
I intend to get one or two and fix them up by the fuse box and in the kitchen.
Like various other posters, we do already leave hand held torches but I've noticed that the batteries go flat quite quickly - it's the sort of thing that kids like to play with and we never seem to find them where we last left them. I think something fixed to the wall might reinforce/remind people that spanish electric (and french by the sound of it!) has to be treated a bit differently from english leccy.
And I don't like to think of people fumbling around in the dark if it does pop. In an unfamiliar house it's quite unnerving when it all suddenly goes dark... specially if some poor sod is in the shower or something....
http://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/shop/produc ... 1022&Brand
Argos also do something similar.
Electricity tariffs and popping circuit breakers
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accommodation-in-spain
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 7:09 am
Great idea Knightowl and thanks for the info, I think I will order a couple too!
I know what you mean about leaving things to the last min - I am the same and seem to work better on adrenalin and coffee! I will probably order one a few days before we next go out and panic about it arriving on time
I know what you mean about leaving things to the last min - I am the same and seem to work better on adrenalin and coffee! I will probably order one a few days before we next go out and panic about it arriving on time
www.Costa-Luz-Holiday.com - your on-line holiday brochure for the Costa de la Luz
Hiya
Actually in the end I went for the Argos one - it also fits to the wall and comes on if the power pops. But it's a decent size and has 2 fluorescent strips - so will light up quite a good distance when lit and can be adapted to be floor standing. Because it's a fluro strip rather than a torch I reckon there's less chance of children wanting to play with it cos it's just not 'fun and toylike'.
For those with access to Argos it's p 297 of the catalogue, item 982/8386 - you can order online too.
Gosh, I'm beginning to sound like a torch salesman! How very sad!!
And i was very efficient and ordered it yesterday and my husband collected it today when he was at work so we can have the grand opening and testing out tonight... what an exciting life we lead...
Actually in the end I went for the Argos one - it also fits to the wall and comes on if the power pops. But it's a decent size and has 2 fluorescent strips - so will light up quite a good distance when lit and can be adapted to be floor standing. Because it's a fluro strip rather than a torch I reckon there's less chance of children wanting to play with it cos it's just not 'fun and toylike'.
For those with access to Argos it's p 297 of the catalogue, item 982/8386 - you can order online too.
Gosh, I'm beginning to sound like a torch salesman! How very sad!!
And i was very efficient and ordered it yesterday and my husband collected it today when he was at work so we can have the grand opening and testing out tonight... what an exciting life we lead...
Nightowl
Forever going one step forwards and two
backwards......
Forever going one step forwards and two
backwards......
What a good tip! We never thought of getting emergency lights for the villa...so will get my husband to bring a couple down from Argos.
We do state in our information folder that we have candles should they need them..but this is a much safer way of dealing with electricity trips and the odd electric cut outs by Sevilla Endesa (which seem to always happen during Winter).
We do state in our information folder that we have candles should they need them..but this is a much safer way of dealing with electricity trips and the odd electric cut outs by Sevilla Endesa (which seem to always happen during Winter).
I need to pick some brains now for a 'what would you do' scenario related to the popping electrics....
This whole thread was prompted by me because our agent had emailed me because the electrics had popped a few times at the house when a family were there at the end of August.
At that time I didn't get full information and just assumed it was the usual sporadic problems; Our agent asked me what action I wanted to take and I felt we needed to look into it a bit so held fire on taking any action.
However, I got an email tonight from the guest who said that the circuit kept popping when she was using the cooker and that they were totally unable to use the kitchen and had therefore eaten out every night and they feel I should repay them the £150 they spent on eating out because they couldn't use the kitchen!
I was a bit astounded and rang her. We had a chat and I said that I hadn't been aware it was that extensive and asked her to run through with me the circumstances of it popping so I could see how we might fix it. She said it had been when she was using the oven, hob and rings and that when she put on a third ring, that was normally the bit when it popped Not always at night time when all the lights were on either. She said her family are picky eaters and all needed cooking for and that was specifically why she booked self catering. I did understand her needs but no other family have had this problem. she said perhaps they all eat out. I said they might, but we don't, I cook a lot when we are there and I haven't found the kitchen unuseable. It has popped on occasion but not to the extent I can't use the kitchen. she said it kept on popping and the meal she was cooking was ruined and they had to throw it away and eat out. And ate out thereafter.
Of course I am sympathetic but I did explain that Spanish tariffs don't always allow you to use everything all at once, although i must admit it does sound like it was only when the third hob ring went on, in additoin to all the oven/grill etc (probably the extractor fan was on as well.....)
She said they'd been to the house next door and asked them if they had that problem and the house opposite, they said no.
the electrician apparently said that it was because the limiter on the system is 20 watt and the cooker, hob etc with all on draws 33 wats and pops it. the potentia rating of our tariff is 4.4kw... this is apparently the reason the limiter is 20watt. For our tariff of 2.0 we can have a potentia rating of up to 15kw. So what potentia rating do other homes use? I think there is a scale of potentia ratings and this forms the basis for a standing charge - whatever your potentia rating is is multiplied by your tariff and then by the cost per unit so if we have a higher potentia then the overall charges go up accordingly.
so the questions to the forum are:
what potentia rating do other people use which gives a reasonable chance of non popping electrics when using reasonable amounts of appliances.
Is it reasonable for this family to have decided to eat out every day in the circumstances? Was it reasonable for them to consider my kitchen unusable because when they put the third hob ring on in addition to the oven, grill etc, the circuit popped?
Should I recompense them their £150? I asked the lady what she felt she wanted me to do to recompense and she said, well we spent £150, that's what I'd like. I said I'd talk it over with my husband (who went completely ballistic and said no way) - I said I understood her disappointment but needed to think about whether her request was realistic.
it was quite a friendly chat, I did acknowledge her complaint but when I got off the phone, and thought about it, I thought, well why couldn't she have just not used the 3rd ring? It didn't seem completely impossible for her to use the cooker, just not all of it at once, although I recognise that if she needs to cook a meal requiring full use of the cooker it's not very convenient if you can't do that... but in my view, not impossible and not necessary to go the whole hog and eat out all the time.
The lady is fed up because in her view she asked our agent to contact me, which he did, she said the electrician had apparently identified the problem and I didn't give our agent the permission to go ahead and fix it then and there which I could have done. But as far as I am aware, an electrician can't just replace the limiter, only Endessa can do that.
What do you reckon, peeps?
This whole thread was prompted by me because our agent had emailed me because the electrics had popped a few times at the house when a family were there at the end of August.
At that time I didn't get full information and just assumed it was the usual sporadic problems; Our agent asked me what action I wanted to take and I felt we needed to look into it a bit so held fire on taking any action.
However, I got an email tonight from the guest who said that the circuit kept popping when she was using the cooker and that they were totally unable to use the kitchen and had therefore eaten out every night and they feel I should repay them the £150 they spent on eating out because they couldn't use the kitchen!
I was a bit astounded and rang her. We had a chat and I said that I hadn't been aware it was that extensive and asked her to run through with me the circumstances of it popping so I could see how we might fix it. She said it had been when she was using the oven, hob and rings and that when she put on a third ring, that was normally the bit when it popped Not always at night time when all the lights were on either. She said her family are picky eaters and all needed cooking for and that was specifically why she booked self catering. I did understand her needs but no other family have had this problem. she said perhaps they all eat out. I said they might, but we don't, I cook a lot when we are there and I haven't found the kitchen unuseable. It has popped on occasion but not to the extent I can't use the kitchen. she said it kept on popping and the meal she was cooking was ruined and they had to throw it away and eat out. And ate out thereafter.
Of course I am sympathetic but I did explain that Spanish tariffs don't always allow you to use everything all at once, although i must admit it does sound like it was only when the third hob ring went on, in additoin to all the oven/grill etc (probably the extractor fan was on as well.....)
She said they'd been to the house next door and asked them if they had that problem and the house opposite, they said no.
the electrician apparently said that it was because the limiter on the system is 20 watt and the cooker, hob etc with all on draws 33 wats and pops it. the potentia rating of our tariff is 4.4kw... this is apparently the reason the limiter is 20watt. For our tariff of 2.0 we can have a potentia rating of up to 15kw. So what potentia rating do other homes use? I think there is a scale of potentia ratings and this forms the basis for a standing charge - whatever your potentia rating is is multiplied by your tariff and then by the cost per unit so if we have a higher potentia then the overall charges go up accordingly.
so the questions to the forum are:
what potentia rating do other people use which gives a reasonable chance of non popping electrics when using reasonable amounts of appliances.
Is it reasonable for this family to have decided to eat out every day in the circumstances? Was it reasonable for them to consider my kitchen unusable because when they put the third hob ring on in addition to the oven, grill etc, the circuit popped?
Should I recompense them their £150? I asked the lady what she felt she wanted me to do to recompense and she said, well we spent £150, that's what I'd like. I said I'd talk it over with my husband (who went completely ballistic and said no way) - I said I understood her disappointment but needed to think about whether her request was realistic.
it was quite a friendly chat, I did acknowledge her complaint but when I got off the phone, and thought about it, I thought, well why couldn't she have just not used the 3rd ring? It didn't seem completely impossible for her to use the cooker, just not all of it at once, although I recognise that if she needs to cook a meal requiring full use of the cooker it's not very convenient if you can't do that... but in my view, not impossible and not necessary to go the whole hog and eat out all the time.
The lady is fed up because in her view she asked our agent to contact me, which he did, she said the electrician had apparently identified the problem and I didn't give our agent the permission to go ahead and fix it then and there which I could have done. But as far as I am aware, an electrician can't just replace the limiter, only Endessa can do that.
What do you reckon, peeps?
Nightowl
Forever going one step forwards and two
backwards......
Forever going one step forwards and two
backwards......
What a cheek!!! my first reaction is exactly the same as yours why not just turn off the 3rd ring? It's not rocket science is it?
So they booked self-catering because they are picky eaters (the implication being they can't eat out) but what did they do.....eat out!
I feel so annoyed on your behalf. I've no doubt it was inconvenient, possibly annoying but come on she did in the end get the benefit of no cooking on holiday.
She should be paying you as it appears that you've also cured her family of being picky eaters!!
Sometimes people don't want to make the best of it they just love to complain.
I wouldn't pay the £150 she might not re-book but that's probably a blessing. if you're so inclined offer her a token, no more than £50 as an apology!
So they booked self-catering because they are picky eaters (the implication being they can't eat out) but what did they do.....eat out!
I feel so annoyed on your behalf. I've no doubt it was inconvenient, possibly annoying but come on she did in the end get the benefit of no cooking on holiday.
She should be paying you as it appears that you've also cured her family of being picky eaters!!
Sometimes people don't want to make the best of it they just love to complain.
I wouldn't pay the £150 she might not re-book but that's probably a blessing. if you're so inclined offer her a token, no more than £50 as an apology!
Knightowl...I would get an electrician in to sort out your Kw distribution or the connection in your cooker....purely because just the hob and oven (and other lights on or not) is not enough to trip. For example in our apartment..on a normal evening (Summer)..we have 2 Pc's running, lights, fans, 2 TV's...hob (and I normally have at least 3 rings on when cooking) or oven, washing machine...and all it takes is a boiling kettle or microwave to trip the switch! (We have a gas boiler)We had a chat and I said that I hadn't been aware it was that extensive and asked her to run through with me the circumstances of it popping so I could see how we might fix it. She said it had been when she was using the oven, hob and rings and that when she put on a third ring, that was normally the bit when it popped Not always at night time when all the lights were on either.
However, in the villa (only during Winter) we have a problem of the electricity 'tripping' only because too many appliances are on at the same time...i.e. electric heaters, oven, hob, dishwasher, w/machine, lights, emersion heaters, pool and garden lights...and again it will only take a boiling kettle or microwave to 'trip'.
I was beginning to think that the cooker must be the problem, even though I haven't had trouble myself with it.
Just to try and get more info, I contacted the family who'd rented the previous 2 weeks before this guest to see if they'd had any problems with electrics and whether they'd used the coooker or eaten out all the time. He'd already sent me a really lovely note saying what a great time they'd had and that they hadn't wanted to come home, so I had a feeling they hadn't had any problems like the next guest, but thought I'd check anyway.
He said they'd used the cooker, hob, all the rings all at the same time, and the electrics hadn't tripped once... And he was cooking for 6 people... the other guest was cooking for 4.
So our only conclusion is that there must just have been a lot of appliances all on at one, or the kettle or microwave tripped it and the guest (or the electrician) just assumed the problem was the cooker...
But because they made that assumption and decided that they wouldn't use the cooker, they now want compensation... and if there really is nothing wrong with the cooker then I'm less inclined to stump up. On the one had, I feel a bit obligated to make a goodwill gesture because I don't like people to be unhappy but I think their reaction was a bit overkill to be honest... and if I'm really being pedantic, we have a microwave and a bbq as alternatives...
Anyway, I think our likely course of action is going to be, as Fluffy suggested way back , to up the power rating from a potentia of 4.4 to something a bit more than that... because we have got guests in October and December too and it's just hassle dealing with complaints if there is something that can be done to alleviate it. And when the weather gets colder there's going to be heaters on as well. I think I've finally got to grips with understanding how it works... am I right in thinking that if I up the potentia that just affects the standing charge? ie. that the consumption charges don't increase in ratio with the increase in potentia?
Crystal - Do you know what power rating/potencia you have for your apartment in order to run all that lot? For a 2.0 tarif you can have up to a potentia of 15.
And the next question is, if I want to up the potentia, if I want to just ring Endessa and sort it out, do they have a number you can ring for English speakers? My spanish just isn't up to it. I'm still at the Que tal? and Buenos dias stage. I know someone advised I could do it via my bank but it seems such a palava to get the bank involved when it seems to me I should be speaking to the electricity company...langauge permitting....
Just to try and get more info, I contacted the family who'd rented the previous 2 weeks before this guest to see if they'd had any problems with electrics and whether they'd used the coooker or eaten out all the time. He'd already sent me a really lovely note saying what a great time they'd had and that they hadn't wanted to come home, so I had a feeling they hadn't had any problems like the next guest, but thought I'd check anyway.
He said they'd used the cooker, hob, all the rings all at the same time, and the electrics hadn't tripped once... And he was cooking for 6 people... the other guest was cooking for 4.
So our only conclusion is that there must just have been a lot of appliances all on at one, or the kettle or microwave tripped it and the guest (or the electrician) just assumed the problem was the cooker...
But because they made that assumption and decided that they wouldn't use the cooker, they now want compensation... and if there really is nothing wrong with the cooker then I'm less inclined to stump up. On the one had, I feel a bit obligated to make a goodwill gesture because I don't like people to be unhappy but I think their reaction was a bit overkill to be honest... and if I'm really being pedantic, we have a microwave and a bbq as alternatives...
Anyway, I think our likely course of action is going to be, as Fluffy suggested way back , to up the power rating from a potentia of 4.4 to something a bit more than that... because we have got guests in October and December too and it's just hassle dealing with complaints if there is something that can be done to alleviate it. And when the weather gets colder there's going to be heaters on as well. I think I've finally got to grips with understanding how it works... am I right in thinking that if I up the potentia that just affects the standing charge? ie. that the consumption charges don't increase in ratio with the increase in potentia?
Crystal - Do you know what power rating/potencia you have for your apartment in order to run all that lot? For a 2.0 tarif you can have up to a potentia of 15.
And the next question is, if I want to up the potentia, if I want to just ring Endessa and sort it out, do they have a number you can ring for English speakers? My spanish just isn't up to it. I'm still at the Que tal? and Buenos dias stage. I know someone advised I could do it via my bank but it seems such a palava to get the bank involved when it seems to me I should be speaking to the electricity company...langauge permitting....
Nightowl
Forever going one step forwards and two
backwards......
Forever going one step forwards and two
backwards......
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Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
Knightowl,
I bought my present properties as a going concern - the main house and two holiday homes. The electrical supply in the main house and one of the holiday homes regularly tripped. All the properties are very fully equipped with electrical appliances although the hobs are gas and heating is by woodburning stoves and gas central heating.
I called the electricity suppliers GDF who sent an engineer to assess my requirements. He listed all electrical appliances in each property and recommended the following supply ratings. The main house - 18kW (31,38€ per month), the larger holiday home (4 bedrooms) - 9kW (13,47€ per month) and the smaller holiday home (1 bedroom) - 6kW (7,50€ per month). I accepted his recommendations and he changed the supply settings on the spot. None of the supplies has tripped since.
Although the standing charges are more the higher the supply setting I do sometimes wonder why people get excited about the differences. I know it's all money we don't like spending but, putting things into perspective, a family of four will happily have a pub lunch with a couple of pints each and readily pay £20 a head - £80, but will argue about paying a few pounds more for a reliable electricity supply.
Alan
I bought my present properties as a going concern - the main house and two holiday homes. The electrical supply in the main house and one of the holiday homes regularly tripped. All the properties are very fully equipped with electrical appliances although the hobs are gas and heating is by woodburning stoves and gas central heating.
I called the electricity suppliers GDF who sent an engineer to assess my requirements. He listed all electrical appliances in each property and recommended the following supply ratings. The main house - 18kW (31,38€ per month), the larger holiday home (4 bedrooms) - 9kW (13,47€ per month) and the smaller holiday home (1 bedroom) - 6kW (7,50€ per month). I accepted his recommendations and he changed the supply settings on the spot. None of the supplies has tripped since.
Although the standing charges are more the higher the supply setting I do sometimes wonder why people get excited about the differences. I know it's all money we don't like spending but, putting things into perspective, a family of four will happily have a pub lunch with a couple of pints each and readily pay £20 a head - £80, but will argue about paying a few pounds more for a reliable electricity supply.
Alan
Knightowl,
At the apartment we're on tarifa 2.0 with a potencia of 3.3Kw and at the villa, tarifa 2.0 with a potencia of 13.15Kw. I have rung Sevillana Endesa before and they will put you through to someone who speaks English. The number I have is 902 509 509 and I assume it's a call centre that deals with the Costa del Sol area.
Hope this helps.
At the apartment we're on tarifa 2.0 with a potencia of 3.3Kw and at the villa, tarifa 2.0 with a potencia of 13.15Kw. I have rung Sevillana Endesa before and they will put you through to someone who speaks English. The number I have is 902 509 509 and I assume it's a call centre that deals with the Costa del Sol area.
Hope this helps.
Knightowl, as my holiday rental business is just a part time income, I still need to work and my "normal job" is that of an electrical contractor. From the info you gave, I will give you a brief summary of your estimated load, taking into account "diversity" which allows calculations to be made on the assumption that not everything is on at the same time.
As you yourself mentioned, evening times are your peak times. The appliances you described vary according to make, but I will calculate on the normal types you mentioned:
Electric hob burners (2) x 2000 watts each = 4000w / 18 Amps
Oven (hopefully convection type) = 2500w / 11 Amps
Lights (assuming 8 lights) low energy = 120 w / .05 A
kettle = 2000w / 9 Amps
Water heater (how big?) = 4000w / 18 Amps.
Total diversified load = 56.5 Amps.
As you can see, the load is quite high at certain "peak times". That is why your energy suppliers give you different tarrifs. I'm assuming that once you step into the higher tarrif, you are stuck with that rate till the next metering period, thus the reason for having "poppers" or MCB (micro circuit breaker) which are designed to isolate the current on reaching certain limits. The heater could be causing the trip due to the high load factor that is added to the already quite high consumption at the time.
One remedy could be to have the water heater run via a time switch which only allows it to work at certain "low peak times" so as not to overload the circuit.
Yours is not a matter of electrical problems, but more of a load management problem, tailor made to the needs and tarrifs of your electrical supplier. You did not mention the limit at which your supplier changes tarrifs, though I can presume that 40 Amps would be normal. Here in Malta, a domestic house would be supplied with a limit of 40 Amps... and no extra tarrif...the fuse simply blows and you're in the dark!
As you yourself mentioned, evening times are your peak times. The appliances you described vary according to make, but I will calculate on the normal types you mentioned:
Electric hob burners (2) x 2000 watts each = 4000w / 18 Amps
Oven (hopefully convection type) = 2500w / 11 Amps
Lights (assuming 8 lights) low energy = 120 w / .05 A
kettle = 2000w / 9 Amps
Water heater (how big?) = 4000w / 18 Amps.
Total diversified load = 56.5 Amps.
As you can see, the load is quite high at certain "peak times". That is why your energy suppliers give you different tarrifs. I'm assuming that once you step into the higher tarrif, you are stuck with that rate till the next metering period, thus the reason for having "poppers" or MCB (micro circuit breaker) which are designed to isolate the current on reaching certain limits. The heater could be causing the trip due to the high load factor that is added to the already quite high consumption at the time.
One remedy could be to have the water heater run via a time switch which only allows it to work at certain "low peak times" so as not to overload the circuit.
Yours is not a matter of electrical problems, but more of a load management problem, tailor made to the needs and tarrifs of your electrical supplier. You did not mention the limit at which your supplier changes tarrifs, though I can presume that 40 Amps would be normal. Here in Malta, a domestic house would be supplied with a limit of 40 Amps... and no extra tarrif...the fuse simply blows and you're in the dark!
Malta – always in the sunshine!
Thank you all for such brilliant and detailed info - that's what makes this site so unique - it's such a mine of information.
I'm going to read and digest all the info and decide what to do next.
Now we have tested out this Argos light and it is really something else!! Honestly, anyone who has this tripping circuits problem, you need one of these babies!!
It's absolutely brilliant. It's got a spotlight and 2 fluro tubes. You can switch it so you can use each one independently or the 2 tubes together and you can switch it to use as a plug in or battery powered torch/lantern. But if you put it on the emergency setting plugged in (ie charging) then if you pull the plug out (ie, like power tripping) - hey presto, it lights up immediately. so power off, light on. Hurrah!!!
And you can take it off the wall and it's got a carrying handle and a floor standing prop. They have really thought of everything. 10/10 as far as I'm concerned.
And for £15, bargain! and the great thing about Argos is that if it does go wrong, they are really good about replacing stuff and never quibble...
Sales promotion over..how sad am I?
Shame we're going to make it redundant if we solve the popping circuit problem....but knowing how manana things are in spain, I doubt that we will get an instant solution.
I'm going to read and digest all the info and decide what to do next.
Now we have tested out this Argos light and it is really something else!! Honestly, anyone who has this tripping circuits problem, you need one of these babies!!
It's absolutely brilliant. It's got a spotlight and 2 fluro tubes. You can switch it so you can use each one independently or the 2 tubes together and you can switch it to use as a plug in or battery powered torch/lantern. But if you put it on the emergency setting plugged in (ie charging) then if you pull the plug out (ie, like power tripping) - hey presto, it lights up immediately. so power off, light on. Hurrah!!!
And you can take it off the wall and it's got a carrying handle and a floor standing prop. They have really thought of everything. 10/10 as far as I'm concerned.
And for £15, bargain! and the great thing about Argos is that if it does go wrong, they are really good about replacing stuff and never quibble...
Sales promotion over..how sad am I?
Shame we're going to make it redundant if we solve the popping circuit problem....but knowing how manana things are in spain, I doubt that we will get an instant solution.
Nightowl
Forever going one step forwards and two
backwards......
Forever going one step forwards and two
backwards......
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Linda Freese
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:00 am
- Location: Costa del Sol
I rang Endesa the other day to sort out a problem that a non-spanish speaking friend of mine was having with her electricity. When I told them I was not the owner they refused to speak to me about the account and advised that the owner had to call them themselves. When I asked if they spoke English, she told me that of course they did! Anyway, my friend called them and sure enough they spoke English - so give it a go!!if I want to just ring Endessa and sort it out, do they have a number you can ring for English speakers? My spanish just isn't up to it
Buena suerte!
thank you Linda _ I've been putting off ringing Endessa because of the whole problem of my very ropy spanish - I can get by face to face but on the phone it's a bit different but you have given me the confidence to give it a go. thanks
Nightowl
Forever going one step forwards and two
backwards......
Forever going one step forwards and two
backwards......
-
johntaylor
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:14 am
- Location: Pedreguer, Costa Blanca, Spain
- Contact:
Tarrif
Hi Knightowl,
Cut your losses and aggro by just putting your tarrif up to 5.5. We did this in our villa. No trips and not much difference in the bill. Peace of mind is far more important.
John
Cut your losses and aggro by just putting your tarrif up to 5.5. We did this in our villa. No trips and not much difference in the bill. Peace of mind is far more important.
John